Gator Game Day (10/4/14): Tennessee Week

[DRU2012]

(Hold ON: This is ABOUT to be "Tennessee Week"--but not 'til NEXT weekend do we play...I screwed up on the date as originally posted--and MEANT to make this a kind of "Game Day--NON-Game Day"--but that isn't at all clear, now that I reread it myself. So let's be clear: We don't actually PLAY them, play ANYONE this week--not til next Saturday. Hence, the above change to "GATOR NON-GAME DAY" Well, got your attention, anyway...)

What haven't I said yet that needs to be said here?
Normally (well, what we came to think of as "normal" not so long ago), this is the week we begin to find out "what we've got" in the still-mostly-upcoming season. We got pretty used to that question being phrased as "How good are we?"--all been waiting, expecting those days to be back. Tough to face it, but while we were looking forward, underneath and now all around us that question has in truth become "How BAD are we, really?". Having to face it at all, let alone before the end of September, is a freezing shower-to-the soul, I'll grant you. But there it is.
That's where things are. Personally, I fear this season we WILL "improve"--and become one of those teams that more and more beats the less-talented teams, but consistently loses to the truly good ones. Of course, there is the possibility that we head the other way, lose a close-one to someone shitty and plunge into factional bickering and disarray, REALLY stink it up and leave no doubt of the changes-to-come. If it weren't for the dangerous long term consequences to every aspect of recruiting AND the difficulties we'll face in finding and reeling in our eventual coach-of-choice, I'd almost prefer the latter. Lotta reasons why I say that, but two biggest are the pain of week-to-week false hopes ("like slow death" is how I put it elsewhere), and all those "dangerous consequences" I alluded to--"winning sometimes" isn't NEAR good enough, and/or year after year of "slow improvement" doesn't WORK: It's an illusion. You just somehow never "get there".
So. Either we turn it around RIGHT NOW, WALLOP this Volunteer team in an angry-yet-crisply performed "execution", then move on to steadily more convincing, even dominating victories against all but the very best, whom we find ways to match and beat as well with a certain growing confidence--none of which I am expecting, obviously--or we all (AD included) face the truth and deal with it. Take the emotionally-detached approach and start doing all the things that implies are and will be required.
Which brings us back to, "How good are we?" vs. "How BAD are we, really?" The first is not an appropriate question at the moment. I guess today we begin to find out if we're likely to be asking it any time soon, OR we'll begin to get some answers to the second one.
Sadly, that's as much "positive" as I've got. That, and the certainty, even HOPE, that I am totally fallible. I could be, want to be wrong. As usual, knowing that, in this case HOPING that, is a blessing and a curse.

 

[Escambia94]

Strike 1 was Kentucky. We were expected to crush Kentucky in order to prove were were back atop the SEC East and that 2013 was a fluke.

Strike 2 was Alabama. Were not expected to win, but we were not expected to get embarrassed in the worst beatdown in Gator history. The loss is the not the strike, but the manner in which we lost and the baffling decisions by the supposedly better, smarter, wiser coaching staff lead me to believe that this coaching staff just does not get it. I hope I am wrong.

Strike 3 would be a loss to Tennessee. A loss to Alabama, LSU, South Carolina, or, as much as I hate to say it, Georgia, could be explained away by Jeremy Foley. A loss to all of them spells doom not only to Muschamp, but the Gator program. I will repeat this ad nauseum: there is no magical coach available in 2015 that can turn the program around other than Will Muschamp. Anyone else, no matter how good they are, would set us back a couple years before they would be able to fix everything.

 

[Leakfan12]

I hate to said but I think to lost to UGA is more than likely though I have faith against LSU and The Old ball coach current team. Ok that's wishful thinking on my part but LSU and SCar doesn't the teams they've had the last few seasons.

 

[DRU2012]

Strike 1 was Kentucky. We were expected to crush Kentucky in order to prove were were back atop the SEC East and that 2013 was a fluke.

Strike 2 was Alabama. Were not expected to win, but we were not expected to get embarrassed in the worst beatdown in Gator history. The loss is the not the strike, but the manner in which we lost and the baffling decisions by the supposedly better, smarter, wiser coaching staff lead me to believe that this coaching staff just does not get it. I hope I am wrong.

Strike 3 would be a loss to Tennessee. A loss to Alabama, LSU, South Carolina, or, as much as I hate to say it, Georgia, could be explained away by Jeremy Foley. A loss to all of them spells doom not only to Muschamp, but the Gator program. I will repeat this ad nauseum: there is no magical coach available in 2015 that can turn the program around other than Will Muschamp. Anyone else, no matter how good they are, would set us back a couple years before they would be able to fix everything.

Can't argue with anything you conclude, E-...In fact, the part that rings most true is your biggest point: That it'll be a couple of years AT LEAST to get "back on track" after a coaching change--and in terms of where we'd wanna be by then, under ANY circumstances, that "couple of years" would be a "FAST turnaround". But that is what is required I'm afraid. I am now convinced we just are not on the right track, will never be the team that we aspire to be with this Head Coach and staff. As for the rest, especially the "magical coach" part and all that, well, I don't really like the term or all it implies: It better NOT require "magic"; I think it WILL require a new direction, and that may well mean someone who isn't on "the obvious shortlist" of "usual suspects"--"proven quantities", or even "vetted up'n'comers". Look, I've said it before: I don't KNOW who it ought to be, or even how we go about finding that "Right Guy", then get him IN here if he's someone who IS well-known and under-contract elsewhere. But anything is possible, can and HAS been done before, and I'm saying we have to go all out, comes to that. Establish parameters, goals, narrow the field to those who "can get it done", never mind the potential drawbacks and/or pitfalls, THEN weigh those along with everything else and arrive at "The Guy" you want--and anything that doesn't make that person "impossible" (in the true sense of that word) is still a potential target, in my view.
Btw, the really sad part is that, judging by the inconsistent play of all those "big time power-teams" in the SEC so far this season, there was a real opportunity for someone to rise up and take it, for US to be that team after all. A decent QB, for eg. the one JD was supposed to be and often shows in practice, might have gotten us close, but there's too much else not "right"--especially with the DEFENSE, it turns out--to have prevented an eventual big disappointment regardless, I think now. It's why I'm not sanguine about what's ahead for us this season, and central to why we need that wholesale change across-the-board, no matter the setback in terms of time and wins-per-season in the interim, even with that "right guy" in place. That, the very point you make about how much time it'd take (with nothing guaranteed until the changes are in place and given MORE time to "work") under the best of circumstances, along with my LIKING Muschamp and belief that he, his team and us, were "CLOSE" to getting back, was why I continued to support him, shied away from this sort of drastic "re-boot" for as long as I have.

 

[awebbf5]

Strike 1 was Kentucky. We were expected to crush Kentucky in order to prove were were back atop the SEC East and that 2013 was a fluke.

Strike 2 was Alabama. Were not expected to win, but we were not expected to get embarrassed in the worst beatdown in Gator history. The loss is the not the strike, but the manner in which we lost and the baffling decisions by the supposedly better, smarter, wiser coaching staff lead me to believe that this coaching staff just does not get it. I hope I am wrong.

Strike 3 would be a loss to Tennessee. A loss to Alabama, LSU, South Carolina, or, as much as I hate to say it, Georgia, could be explained away by Jeremy Foley. A loss to all of them spells doom not only to Muschamp, but the Gator program. I will repeat this ad nauseum: there is no magical coach available in 2015 that can turn the program around other than Will Muschamp. Anyone else, no matter how good they are, would set us back a couple years before they would be able to fix everything.

Gus turned around Auburn in a year. I have to disagree on not finding a coach to do it. The longer we hold on to Muschamp the longer we set the program back. Recruiting is bad , our scheme and coaching is bad. Time to start a new chapter.

 

[miltongator]

FYI, Brissett is looking good so far for NC State.

 

[Escambia94]

Gus turned around Auburn in a year. I have to disagree on not finding a coach to do it. The longer we hold on to Muschamp the longer we set the program back. Recruiting is bad , our scheme and coaching is bad. Time to start a new chapter.

Gus came back to his old program where he recruited some of the offensive studs. Gus is also not afraid to "give thugs a second chance".

Can anyone figure a scenario where Florida would do the same thing? I cannot.

 

[DRU2012]

FYI, Brissett is looking good so far for NC State.

Seems pretty clear the wrong choice was made there--but then he left US on the heals of not being named starter...It's hard for me to be too judgmental about that choice at the time, though, not without feeling like a hypocrite: I fell for the same things all the coaches thought they saw leading up to that decision. Then again, I'M not a college coach at the highest level, charged with making the right choices and bringing the whole thing off...then AGAIN again, Jacoby himself made a seemingly weak, even poor choice there (from our POV, certainly, and in the long run possibly still his own personally--I mean, he COULD have been the starter and savior of the SEC's Florida GATORS, following the legend that was TT with who knows what sky-high honor, attention and glory): "Injury or poor play" by Driskel would have put him in the driver's seat, even then "just behind" JD in the overall assessment of the two, and he should have hung in here for that reason (remember him coming here DESPITE JD's hailed and heralded recruitment, Jacoby proclaiming he was "confident" in his own abilities and looking forward to "the challenge"?), even without knowing what was in fact ABOUT to happen. But it is the overall trend at QB in general, the choices made with seemingly little insight, foresight or intuition as to who was a "winner", the leader needed to maximize whatever potential was there on offense if/when "the right guy" at OC was ever actually identified and brought in. Come to think of it, until possibly THIS season, the same trend was displayed in choosing OCs as well!
All of which is now the sort of "spilt milk" that is painful to consider, let alone have our faces rubbed in on a weekly basis (and I'm NOT going there with respect to OCs, where I find the sudden resurgence of BC just a weird slap-in-the-face of everything we KNOW we know about that particular cast-off!), and does us no good now in any event.
I'm with aweb on this: "Time to start a new chapter." Nothing else will ever make it better, or at least "better enough". And the idea implied in holding on now because we can't just pluck an obvious consensus "sure thing" from some mythical "short list of candidates" just seems a losers' mentality from the word go. Tread water until such time as "the right guy" becomes somehow "clear and available"--and meanwhile MAYBE Will Muschamp manages to pull off something there's been no sign that he has or will pull off so far, and hope he doesn't allow things to deteriorate further all the while??? I don't think so: Assuming the very point that ANY such change will mean at minimum a couple of years just to get readjusted, repositioned and restarted on the road-to-Championships, no matter what, simply and finally argues that WE SHOULD GET STARTED ON IT ASAP.

 

[DRU2012]

Note 1:
(Not by any intention, certainly not consciously agreed to by us in any way, but E- and I often end up playing "devil's advocate" to each others' hardened positions on seemingly the most important issues facing us here at GE, and we've certainly fallen into that here. I don't think our actual thoughts, feelings, opinions or general outlooks are ever that different, in the final analysis, but we take these to different places sometimes. Though this isn't uniformly the case, I'd say that E- is more moderately measured in his thinking and where he goes with it, how far, how fast...I'm more extreme in my opinions, emotions, and where they lead me: I'll hold and strongly support, stick with a certain set of arguments for as long as they seem valid to me, but I continue to consider the flow of new observations and information, always ready to re-evaluate, even drastically move-on when my "inner scales" tip in that direction. I'm not one to feel discomfort at this sort of byplay--in fact, I enjoy it, think it's good and healthy in general, and works here at our site. In fact, I really LIKE the way everyone here has their own voice, distinct way of seeing things and are confident and comfortable enough to just come out with it, neither echoing nor flaming each other. If only it worked that way elsewhere on the 'net, right? One more sign that "GATOR Nation" is healthier than the "nation-at-large", no matter WHAT "the haters" say about us!)
Note 2:
(I'm gonna say THIS again too: I LIKE Will Muschamp, am sorry that it has come to this, feel bad for him and his family, understand the emotional commitment he tried to bring to bear here and the fundamental feeling of rejection, the unfairness of life in general that brings misery to decent people, and all that...But "all that" is entirely beside the point when it comes to "bringing a winning program back to a school accustomed to competing at this level" on an annual basis, especially when he knew all that coming in and accepted the challenge. I stood by him until I could no longer believe that he would get it done...If you're there too, I don't see how or why any other conclusion is possible. If not, well, I understand completely your loyalty. But then I wonder what it'd take to get there...How many more sloppy performances, poor prep, flawed planning and execution, failures to adjust? Is there an actual "unacceptable number-of-losses"? HOW MUCH MORE TIME?)

 

[awebbf5]

Gus came back to his old program where he recruited some of the offensive studs. Gus is also not afraid to "give thugs a second chance".

Can anyone figure a scenario where Florida would do the same thing? I cannot.

You have your opinion like I have mine. You want to keep Muschump and I want him gone , I understand.

 

[DRU2012]

You have your opinion like I have mine. You want to keep Muschump and I want him gone , I understand.

I'm not so sure "want to keep Muschamp" is exactly the clear and positive endorsement E- has given him--that's my point(s) above and elsewhere...In fact, it's the equivocal nature of his and others' "we're stuck with him for now" and "anyway who is OUT there now?" POVs that I am addressing when I say, "If we aren't headed in the right direction, don't believe he can get us there, and are concerned with the consequences in time and continued decline in the meantime with any such change, SHOULDN'T WE GET STARTED SOON AS WE CAN?!!"
I guess the "soon as we can"-part is the sticking point--and I just don't believe the "wait 'til more guys are available" (let alone "wait for the RIGHT guy") approach is right, realistic, practical or viable. How can our people even BEGIN to consider and freely move in that direction, let alone operate in any kind of aggressively ambitious fashion as might be required, without cutting our present Coach off at the knees--with all of the unacceptable consequences (to him and to us) that that would entail. And you can FORGET some kind of "secret search"; won't work, won't stay that way, and make everything that much worse.
I keep asking these things as questions because when the pieces slip sharply into place for me, when reasonable people whose opinions I respect and appreciate draw conclusions that so far diverge from my own, I wonder if I'm missing something. I supported Muschamp, believed we should keep him and give him more time, right up until enough evidence came in that we were not "on our way", even now. OK, it happened suddenly, quickly and unexpectedly for me, but that's how these things often go: We had the bulk of our first real evidence in months with the start (eventually) of the season. Once those dominoes tipped, once I thought I saw too many signs that with all his guys, everything that's happened and most "external factors" cut to a minimum and/or reasonably under control, the outlook for HIS program (it's fair to call it that by now) was still uncertain, even floundering, well, that was it. No reason to "wait and see" any longer.
Yes, we can respect and accept, even welcome here our "differences of opinion", but this is a monumental decision, for our Gators one of those "can't go back" moments that you wanna get right when it comes. Really, it's a whole cluster of decisions, the moves around them subtle and complex. Emotions run high, and we run the risk not only of getting it all wrong but ripping the fabric of our program apart in the process. That doesn't mean we don't even start. We don't have to be of "one mind", as a "Nation" or (especially) here at GE, but "getting it all out there to be considered " IS a key component to "getting it right"--and if even we here can't manage to do that, be clear about the choices and reasons behind them ourselves, I wonder what chance all those disparate personalities and interests under extreme pressure, and in the "fishbowl" of public scrutiny no less, have of doing so in the end.

 

[awebbf5]

I'm not so sure "want to keep Muschamp" is exactly the clear and positive endorsement E- has given him--that's my point(s) above and elsewhere...In fact, it's the equivocal nature of his and others' "we're stuck with him for now" and "anyway who is OUT there now?" POVs that I am addressing when I say, "If we aren't headed in the right direction, don't believe he can get us there, and are concerned with the consequences in time and continued decline in the meantime with any such change, SHOULDN'T WE GET STARTED SOON AS WE CAN?!!"
I guess the "soon as we can"-part is the sticking point--and I just don't believe the "wait 'til more guys are available" (let alone "wait for the RIGHT guy") approach is right, realistic, practical or viable. How can our people even BEGIN to consider and freely move in that direction, let alone operate in any kind of aggressively ambitious fashion as might be required, without cutting our present Coach off at the knees--with all of the unacceptable consequences (to him and to us) that that would entail. And you can FORGET some kind of "secret search"; won't work, won't stay that way, and make everything that much worse.
I keep asking these things as questions because when the pieces slip sharply into place for me, when reasonable people whose opinions I respect and appreciate draw conclusions that so far diverge from my own, I wonder if I'm missing something. I supported Muschamp, believed we should keep him and give him more time, right up until enough evidence came in that we were not "on our way", even now. OK, it happened suddenly, quickly and unexpectedly for me, but that's how these things often go: We had the bulk of our first real evidence in months with the start (eventually) of the season. Once those dominoes tipped, once I thought I saw too many signs that with all his guys, everything that's happened and most "external factors" cut to a minimum and/or reasonably under control, the outlook for HIS program (it's fair to call it that by now) was still uncertain, even floundering, well, that was it. No reason to "wait and see" any longer.
Yes, we can respect and accept, even welcome here our "differences of opinion", but this is a monumental decision, for our Gators one of those "can't go back" moments that you wanna get right when it comes. Really, it's a whole cluster of decisions, the moves around them subtle and complex. Emotions run high, and we run the risk not only of getting it all wrong but ripping the fabric of our program apart in the process. That doesn't mean we don't even start. We don't have to be of "one mind", as a "Nation" or (especially) here at GE, but "getting it all out there to be considered " IS a key component to "getting it right"--and if even we here can't manage to do that, be clear about the choices and reasons behind them ourselves, I wonder what chance all those disparate personalities and interests under extreme pressure, and in the "fishbowl" of public scrutiny no less, have of doing so in the end.

There will be enough evidence when they burn Knoxville down next week and sing rocky top all night long. We are a poorly coached team and it shows every time we take the field.

 

[Leakfan12]

I hate to said this but I am not so sure about the UT game anymore.

 

[Escambia94]

You have your opinion like I have mine. You want to keep Muschump and I want him gone , I understand.

It is not that simple. My opinion is not what is in question. My discussion is about what makes sense for the University of Florida football program. Firing a respected and liked coach midseason is bad for business. What coach would want to come here and work for an athletic director that does that?

Even if my opinion were that Muschamp must go, there is nobody out there on the market that can sprinkle some magic dust and fix everything. The quickest path to success is for Muschamp to figure things out and become that coach that Jeremy Foley envisioned him to be. The alternative would be to find an NFL coach with his own coaching staff, and those are in short supply now. There are college coaches with staffs available for the right price, but some of them come with baggage, such as Bobby Petrino, and some are entrenched in their alma mater, such as Kyle Kingsbury. Others are too old for Foley to hire, such as Art Briles. Hugh Freeze is climbing atop my list.

Some weirdos think bringing in Kerwin Bell or Tim Tebow is the answer. Seriously. Logic says give Muschamp until the end of the season, and keep a list in the hip pocket.

 

[miltongator]

Great news!!! Charlie Weis just became available! How lucky can we get.

 

[DRU2012]

Great news!!! Charlie Weis just became available! How lucky can we get.

(laughing) Well, irony is one of the few outlets we've got for our frustration and disappointment for now, I'm afraid. It goes on and on, too.
Even "The Dazz" is hailed a hero at BC now...I said I wouldn't "go there" re the former COACHES that are seeming to thrive in their "smaller ponds", but at least in Weiss' case it seems to be going in more predictable fashion.
In point of fact, that "big fish in small pond"-syndrome is one of the main things at work here: You come to THE University of Florida, you are stepping up to the "SHOW", the highest level on the highest stage that is major college football in America. The risks are many, the rewards great. A challenge for the brave, yes--a life test, requiring confidence, skill, timing, and (let's face it) certain amount of LUCK--I don't like it, have not always even "believed in" this last, and absolutely hate to depend on it, but I have come to see that "luck" or something like it, call it what you like, is always at work where a huge tangle of complex forces are involved.
So many have plenty of one but not quite enough of another, turns out. You need 'em all, albeit mixed in your own unique way, to succeed as a Head Coach in the SEC. Now WE need some, especially perhaps the "luck" part, in order to get to where we want to be from here, now.

 

[miltongator]

Actually it was ironic sarcasm at work there. I have nothing left now that I'm among the downtrodden.

 

[DRU2012]

@miltongator,
(I couldn't really give it a "Like"--'cause who LIKES how things are?--but I sure do AGREE with you completely, and TOTALLY lean in the same direction, towards "ironic sarcasm", to get me thru'. Stick around: We keep heading the way I see this all heading, we might as well make this site a regular ORGY of smirking sarcasm...At some point, the tearing of flesh and gnashing of teeth just gets old and tired, even BORING. I have a feeling we can really get some snarling humor going here, if we're pushed to it.)

 

[miltongator]

@miltongator,
(I couldn't really give it a "Like"--'cause who LIKES how things are?--but I sure do AGREE with you completely, and TOTALLY lean in the same direction, towards "ironic sarcasm", to get me thru'. Stick around: We keep heading the way I see this all heading, we might as well make this site a regular ORGY of smirking sarcasm...At some point, the tearing of flesh and gnashing of teeth just gets old and tired, even BORING. I have a feeling we can really get some snarling humor going here, if we're pushed to it.)

I'm in. Better than rehashing the same old gripes. At least "smirking sarcasm" might put a smile on my face come the rest of this season's Saturdays.

 

[miltongator]

Did ya'll hear that the NC State coach has accused 1/2 A$$ U of faking injuries to slow down NC's offense? Say it aint so! Not the Criminoles. They would never stoop to such behavior. Why, that would almost be like hitting 'till the echo of the whistle, or getting some free shoes or crab legs, or rape, ad infinitum. Nah, couldn't be.