How About THIS Poll: A Brantley Referendum

[DRU2012]

First threw this out there as part of a discussion on another thread here, but I thought it might be interesting to put it up alone to see what members think regarding our QB's capabilities:

"Brantley is ready to run and execute which of the following pass plays?"
(1) Only the flat pass, quick, short over-the-middle passes, and various screens.
(2) #1, plus sideline out, plus medium-long pass to middle-zone.
(3) #1 and #2, plus long passes such as fly, hook and go, etc. to the WRs--BUT he will tend to check down out of 'em too quickly, so tho' he CAN throw these, his "head" is preventing him from doing all he could do (and will sooner or later hurt team).
(4) #1, #2, and all the passes in #3--and the only reason he hasn't is that Weis has ENCOURAGED him to go with the Rainey-or-TE option in the early game plans (as in, "Take what they're giving us"), and as this soon changes #12 CAN and WILL "stretch the field".

Whatta y'all think?

 

[Escambia94]

#1. He plays it safe. He does not want to lose the game, and is afraid of taking chances to lose the game. He is playing it safe by depending on Rainey. What he needs is for a receiver to become dependable so he will take a shot more often. I do not know why, but they just do not get open. If Jordan Reed gets healthy again, I think he or Trey Burton will emerge as his confidence builders pass-catchers.

 

[travisduncan]

I'll go with #1-I thinkwe'll see the "take what they give you" all season and beyond with Weis/Muschamp...But you would think they would shake things up a tad because these teams are going to figure out you have to keep a guy on Rainey at all times...

 

[CaliZona_Gator]

You know our forum has the option to make polls?

Anyways, I would go with #3. I am still satisfied with our QB play and our amount of deep routes/passes.

I hate to be the John Fox of Gator Envy. But JB is our best QB and gives us the best chance to win. Anybody calling for Driskell to play right now is a half-assed Gator fan in my book.

We saw the same thing with Leak & Tebow. Leak was clearly the better QB and he proved himself. And it was the annoying Gator fans that were calling for Tebow to start.

 

[DRU2012]

I'll answer these (and hopefully MORE that come in)in more detail when I have time (just got home after working LATE)...for now, while not at all surprised, the choice of #1 WAS the one I expected to pull at least a plurality for (way too few yet to even begin to consider "sample", of course, but both are from members I KNOW have well-considered insights...and yeah, I should take the time to avail myself of the procedures to set up a full-on Poll for proper analysis, but I wasn't sure I'd get the kind of backgound-thinking BEHIND the responses that way--which to me are the most interesting part).
#3, on the other hand, tends to be the one I lean towards--anything less makes it difficult for me to understand why Weis was as optimistic as he has been about JB: There's GOTTA be more there than what we've seen so far, I figure...otherwise, you'd think Driskel and the others would be getting more in-game time than they have so far.
I figured coming IN this season that JB IV gave us the best chance at success THIS year, and am more sure than ever that's so...we ALL had to hope it was #4 here, but the last hopes for that kind of "latent brilliance" to somehow "emerge with Weis' help and encouragement", while not yet completely gone, are certainly on the brink of fading away.
Assuming #1, at best #2 and seeing flashes of #3 at crucial moments may be the best we can expect from Mr. Brantley--and with a tough-and-getting-tougher defense, maybe that GETS us 9-to-10 wins this year.

(PS--Charlie is unhappy. This is a good thing, because it is the proper reaction to what we ALL saw out there this past Saturday. Though he kept it mostly general, he covered enough of the specific AREAS of concern, and implied that there'd be changes. It was time. My hope is that both the unhappiness and the potential changes include things that would affect #12 and our passing game, among other areas.)

 

[InkedAdrenaline]

I think you guys pretty much know my answer.....#1!!!!

 

[DRU2012]

As usual, just when I'm inclined to begin going back to my OWN impatience with #12, Weis says something that causes me to at least back off a bit, try to reserve judgment just a little longer. Among his continued claims of "unhappiness", "concern", "disappointment", even "misery" with various aspects of the offense's play "at this point in the season and their development", in answer to a specific question about Brantley and the apparent limitations in the passing game Weis defends his QB against his being "unfairly blamed for everything last year", and goes on to say that they (ie. on offense) have the long passing game available, JB can throw it, he's not worried about that, just that they haven't needed it, that (again) "it hasn't been what they've been leaving open to us", and he has no concern about them being able to use it when it is. I swore I'd give Brantley, this team and this coaching staff (who, though EXTREMELY careful and guarded in what they show and say publicly, do appear to "say what they mean and mean what they say" as far as they go--at least that is my impression so far).
So: We'll see.

 

[totenkopf13]

I hope for #4. Soon we will know.

 

[Escambia94]

I stated before the season started that I wanted to see Brantley throw for 250-300 yards. I also wanted to see a pro style offense. Guys, look at the offense carefully. In addition to the I and offset I, Charlie Weis has lined up the offense in the spread (but used "pro-style blocking"), zone read, and wishbone--all formations that were found in the Urban Meyer Utah Offense (for some reason his playbook is online as the Utah Offense, but there is no Florida version online). Do I really believe that we are not stretching the field because "that is what the defense is giving us"--I honestly believe Brantley just can't hack it. Do you honestly believe that Tyler Bray throws for 300+ yards per game because "that is what the defense gives him"? No! Do you honestly believe that Rex Grossman threw for 300+ yards a game because "that is what the defense gave him"? No! Even Tim Tebow managed 300+ yards passing and running each game--even with Percy Harvin sharing the field. Most of our Gator quarterbacks racked up 250-300 yards of offense using their right arm or the arm and their legs--even if they had a good running back to hand off to. The only exception I can think of is Kyle Morris, but all he had to do was hand the ball off to Emmitt Smith.

 

[DRU2012]

"Well, when you put it like THAT..." (rueful laughing--at myself!) I don't know, E-...until I considered your "Loeffler messed with his throwing motion"-theory, I would have been more steadfast in just "reserving judgment" even now. As it is, truth is I am actually HOPING that somehow #3 above explains both what my eyes have seen and what Weis is telling us--it at least leaves the possibility that somehow Weis can "free the pure-passer" that this choice implies is still somewhere inside John Brantley. I have to believe WEIS believes something along these lines; however, when I look at it all in the stark terms I normally approach these things (more along lines with what you posted here), it begins to sound, well I was going to say "pretty silly", but instead I'll simply admit that "hope is fading"...like a dream that you want and TRY to remember when you awaken, it will be gone soon, and once it is I will hardly remember it, I'm afraid. Like a LOT of Gators, it feels like we will know for sure soon, one way or another.
In fact, here is how I have decided to end my OWN "Brantley-induced angst": No more excuses after this week. Either he begins to establish "working relationships" with his receivers against a KY team that shouldn't be able to stop it, distribute catches among the WRs and TEs as the offense is supposedly designed to be able to do, or it is time to accept something close to your above resigned assessment. I don't care if the reasons behind our pressing the air attack somewhat is because we need to get it untracked in general and because JB needs to begin finding out who his go-to guy or guys are in the process (both of which are true and necessary), or because "they" (KY) DO try to "stack the box", and that turns out to be "what they're giving us" this week (which would be a good and handy thing for us to face at this point). Either way, it is time to find out--not for the fans' (or my) sake, but because it should be self-evident, by any measure--logic, historic, empiric--that the coaches, players, Brantley himself, NEED TO KNOW, and sooner rather than later.
We can't wait for Tuscaloosa to "find out", and if no effort is made in this direction this Saturday, then I'll have to conclude that Weis already HAS a pretty clear idea himself, and whatever it is, it doesn't include much confidence in our passing game with the senior in there.

 

[CaliZona_Gator]

Tyler Bray throws for 300+ yards because UT never runs the ball, and gets negative yards when they do!
If you want to just look at total passing yards you have to keep in mind how dominant our rush offense has been in the first 3 games. It's hard to throw for 300+ when you have Rainey and Demps getting 10 yards each carry. Also, the return game and the defense (for the most part) has been giving the offense a short field. Aaaaaand we have shut down our offense before the 4th quarter in all 3 games. Even in the UT game, only a handful of pass plays total in the 4th quarter.

 

[DRU2012]

Tyler Bray throws for 300+ yards because UT never runs the ball, and gets negative yards when they do!
If you want to just look at total passing yards you have to keep in mind how dominant our rush offense has been in the first 3 games. It's hard to throw for 300+ when you have Rainey and Demps getting 10 yards each carry. Also, the return game and the defense (for the most part) has been giving the offense a short field. Aaaaaand we have shut down our offense before the 4th quarter in all 3 games. Even in the UT game, only a handful of pass plays total in the 4th quarter.

You're right (and even WITH that running game, I thought we may have "shut down" the offense IN GENERAL a little early in that last game--ours is NOT the grind-it-out, between-the-tackles running game that runs out the clock, especially when the other guys are expecting and KEYING on it (or we at least didn't use the version of it that we have, strangely enough it seemed to me...why we don't use that "Big Regular" and or Gilissley and/or Brown more in certain situations like this one and near the goal is beyond me). Still, even granting how effective our speed running game and similar passing has been (those flares and flat-passes are essentially the QB "short-passing" the ball like a long-handoff or pitch over to what becomes basically a run play, right?), we've covered a number of reasons why relying on that and that alone this far into the season may be very dangerous--and the supposed reasons for it begin to be stretched thinner and thinner: don't you think there's something to these concerns?

 

[CaliZona_Gator]

You're right (and even WITH that running game, I thought we may have "shut down" the offense IN GENERAL a little early in that last game--ours is NOT the grind-it-out, between-the-tackles running game that runs out the clock, especially when the other guys are expecting and KEYING on it (or we at least didn't use the version of it that we have, strangely enough it seemed to me...why we don't use that "Big Regular" and or Gilissley and/or Brown more in certain situations like this one and near the goal is beyond me). Still, even granting how effective our speed running game and similar passing has been (those flares and flat-passes are essentially the QB "short-passing" the ball like a long-handoff or pitch over to what becomes basically a run play, right?), we've covered a number of reasons why relying on that and that alone this far into the season may be very dangerous--and the supposed reasons for it begin to be stretched thinner and thinner: don't you think there's something to these concerns?

I think people are just worried about those short passes because that was one of the 4 plays we ran last year. But the fact is they are working. Rainey and Demps are a great deal better than last year, and those swing passes have been very effective. I would only be concerned if we keep going to that play when a team (like Bama) starts shutting it down. But I have confidence that Weis will know better.

 

[Escambia94]

Again I point to Wayne Peace and the Gators of the early 1980s. Wayne Peace dinked and dunked the ball because we really did not have a deep threat receiver. Back then we were blessed with some good running backs, sometimes even in tandem. Wayne had Mike Shanahan as an offensive coordinator. The difference there is that we had much bigger backs to carry the load and pound the ball in. Even our biggest back, Trey Burton, was nailed at the line because he runs high like a receiver, not low like a running back. We need a Burton-sized fullback, or Burton needs to learn to run low and plow through those linebackers and defensive ends (assuming he makes it through the defensive tackles first). Yeah, he is big, but he is not using his size correctly.

Also, the weak Tennessee defense even slowed down Shake and Bake. If they can do it, so can Bama and LSU. I am not saying we need to depend on the long ball, but we had better be able to dial it up when needed. Kentucky would be a good display of an aerial attack if anything to make Bama and LSU prepare for the possibility of a long ball. I would rather throw against Bama and run against LSU, but Weis may know how to flip that and confuse those defenses. Otherwise, everyone knows what we are bringing to the table during the Gauntlet--two sub-200 running backs, a short passing game, and an untested quarterback (untested in 2011 under the new system).

 

[DRU2012]

...all true, but we DO have a "Burton-sized fullback", a strong one who runs hard and gets leverage, don't we? For some reason I keep getting his name wrong (Tory?), and maybe THAT is a sign we need to be using him more! Also, there IS Gillisley, who always seems to get yardage running downhill (it's there in his stats, too: check 'em out, E-). This is what I meant above about the sets and personnel I KNOW we have but haven't used much. OK, "haven't needed them" has been the mantra thus far--though that wasn't necessarily the case at the end of last Saturday's game--and MAYBE Weis is keeping as much as possible "in the bag" (that HAS been this whole TEAM'S approach to gaining another "edge" through "mystery" since last spring!). If so, I hope it's all there when they reach for it. Any coach will tell you that while "practice makes perfect", there is no substitute for running your plays and schemes (and most of all, your PLAYERS) against real gameday competition.

 

[CaliZona_Gator]

Hunter Joyer is our true freshman FB.

 

[DRU2012]

Hunter Joyer is our true freshman FB.

THANK you! (I don't know why I have so much trouble remembering that name--it IS unique...I really like the kid, too.)

 

[Escambia94]

My mistake. Joyer is the only listed FB getting carries. Trey is listed as RB, as are Demps, Rainey, and Gillislee. Even Gillislee is small compared to the average pro-style RB. Under Urban Meyer's offense, he was be considered huge.

Trey Burton​

RB​

6' 3"​

229​

SO​

Mike Gillislee​

RB​

5' 11"​

198​

JR​

Hunter Joyer​

FB​

5' 10"​

242​

FR​

 

[DRU2012]

I'll say this though: Gillislee RUNS "big", right? And Hunter Joyer IS big--just not tall.

 

[Escambia94]

Gillislee runs like he is over 200.