Spread QB Comparison

[Escambia94]

Just for S's and G's, I ran a quick comparison of a few QBs that run similar spread/spread-option offenses. Mainly I did this because I read on another forum that "white QBs tend to be better passers and that black QBs tend to be better runners" and that "white QBs automatically get the benefit of the doubt as passers, and black QBs are given the benefit of the doubt as runners".

John Brantley #12 QB

CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	RAT
145	233	62.2	1459	6.3	6	51	6	118.18

ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LOST
9	-70	-1.8	12	0	0	0	0

Cameron Newton #2 QB

CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	RAT
108	162	66.7	1573	9.7	15	94	5	172.61

ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LOST
168	1122	6.7	71	14	0	0	0

Trey Burton #8 QB

CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	RAT
3	4	75.0	68	17.0	0	42	1	167.80

ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LOST
49	248	5.1	51	10	0	0	0

Chris Relf #14 QB

CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	RAT
70	130	53.8	926	7.1	7	58	3	126.83

ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LOST
23	507	4.1	24	3	0	0	0

Playing the race card, JB does not stack up well in passing at all. His running is embarrassing. Looking at Chris Relf, you can see that even a crappy passer can win more games in this spread-option as long as he can run for 4 yards per carry.

Supposedly Cam Newton was a crappy passer. As a matter of fact, I could probably go back in time to an old forum from 2007-2008, copy and paste everyone's comments, and paste them here and replace "Cam Newton" with "Trey Burton". Just a little coaching and check out Cam Newton's passing nowadays.

Just for another data point, check out the Oregon QB.

Darron Thomas #1 QB

CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	RAT
128	211	60.7	1827	8.7	21	84	6	160.56

ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LOST
50	311	6.2	35	2	0	0	0

Someone tell me why we are afraid to either a) let Trey Burton or Jordan Reed sling the ball around or b) coach Trey Burton on how to throw a ball. I'm not talking about replacing John Brantley--I am talking about scaring the piss out of the defense by having three QBs who can throw in the backfield at once, plus two that can run it, plus two that can catch. Right now, the two-headed monster would fool Georgia, but South Carolina probably will not be as easy to fool.

 

[DRU2012]

Man, I was ready to see this as more a "cultural effect" than anything else (as you imply up top), but once the numbers are laid out for analysis and comparison, a lot of other things begin to emerge...I think you've zeroed in on "the bottom line" here as well, at least as it applies to us: with coaching (something they never bothered with, or "had the chance to try", as the case may be, with Cam--whole other discussion, albeit related) there's no apparent reason Burton couldn't refine his passing skills (it's clear he has some of his own already) to the point where he'd be a viable, dangerous threat to sling it any time he's in there. We're sure going to need a few more "wrinkles" when we face a strong defense, as you say.
I'm tempted to begin proposing various ideas I have about the "offense-to-come", many of which I believe have utility now even as they begin preparation for/transition to that future "system", a Driskoll-run hybrid spread option with Brown and/or Blakely available along with several hot receivers that leaves the offense with all KINDS of "options" while it "spreads" the defense to its breaking point. That really WILL be "lethal", and it looks like we'll have all the moving parts. That just leaves the coaching...

 

[Escambia94]

Bingo! I read the racism comments on another forum and figured this would be an interesting topic. Racism always is. I get in trouble all the time for calling out Tebow detractors who don't like my opinion that they don't respect Timmy's athleticism because he is white.

All my numbers show is what we already should know. Color does not make one athlete better. Coaching CAN make an athlete better. I did not show Cam's numbers from '07-'08 because he was not the starter then, but I can remember everyone's comments. Those same comments show up with Trey today. What? Do we need to kick off Trey and let another spread coach get to him before he increases effectiveness 100 percent? Let the kid throw. If it's ugly, tweak it now while he is a freshman and don't wait until the day before the NFL draft. Tebow's throwing motion was just as bad as Burton's and Newton's. Sheesh. If you can't fix it, coach the kid and make it work. Isn't that what you get paid half a million dollars a year to do?

 

[GainesvillebornNraised]

i would def like to see reed get more time, he always does good

sooner or later we're gonna have to let those guys throw if we wanna catch the defense off gaurd

 

[crmixon]

You line up those three side by side in the back field with no clue who gets the snap and what they will do and I would quit if I was a DC facing us. All of them have their strengths (and weaknesses) the problem being that everyone knows what's coming and from where.
Great research escambia.

 

[Escambia94]

It's college. They are student athletes. Give them homework on how to play better football, then give them a test. I bet they will surprise you. Take Chris Leak for example. Before the Urban Attack arrived he only attempted 61 rushes. Under Urban Meyer he went up to 107 attempts and tripled his rushing TD count while sacrificing 500ish passing yards. Granted, his yards per rush kept going down as defenders learned to respect his running. Imagine if JB were split wide and burned one guy for 50 yards and a TD? Next thing you know, Burton and Reed have JB to throw to, one less DB in the box, and maybe it draws coverage away from Carl Moore or Deonte Thompson. It's win-win for the passing QB, the running QB, and the offense if we test the abilities of these guys and make any defense scared to defend any permutation of our triple QB threat.

 

[DRU2012]

I like it! And when Driskoll gets here, it sets up perfectly to "phase him in", eventually (whether it is in that first or second year) gathering more and more of the specific "QB-reins" to himself, allowing the offense to adapt organically over time, while Burton (Reed too?) continues to play "all over the place". One of the most important parts of this approach is to lessen opposing defenses' assumptions regarding who's there to do what. That's killing us. Add to that ALL the QBs threatening to "stretch the field", and things will open up quickly.
If and when we can add power running to that--we have Mack Brown waiting in the wings, and Blakely on the way-- and an imaginative approach could have the other guys' heads spinning. Of course, this all depends on that "imaginative approach"; I discuss the big impediment to THAT elsewhere.

 

[Escambia94]

Maybe it takes the threat of losing four in a row for the offensive genius, Urban Meyer, to improve his offense. Whether he did it, or Azzani suggested it, or what--we all knew that the coaches had the talent on the team and that it was up to them to find a way. Are we there yet? Almost. I think we are close to fully maximizing the talent on this team, whether it is with three QBs in the backfield, or two Harvin positions, or a Harvin and a Burton position. On defense....let's save that for another thread.

 

[The Zooker]

One thing about quarterback stats is that they rely heavily on the supporting cast. I think the biggest factor is the O line but it's also great to have stud WR's and RB's to take a little pressure off.

 

[The Zooker]

And Meyer said we can expect to see Jordan Reed throwing the ball against Vandy. No word on if Burton will be allowed to throw. Apparently Burton is pretty inaccurate during practice and easily intercepted.

 

[DRU2012]

And Meyer said we can expect to see Jordan Reed throwing the ball against Vandy. No word on if Burton will be allowed to throw. Apparently Burton is pretty inaccurate during practice and easily intercepted.

As I've said before, here HAS to be a reason why Burton was, is and continues to be considered "a great athlete" rather than a starting QB (at times that has become more of a "hope", so confused and baffled have I been with the philosophy, if any, behind our offense). Still, none of us has SEEN a practice, so as usual we're left with questions--and the coaches' "word". In this case, despite the "word" we're getting, I've gotta go with Escambria94 and ponder if a good QB coach can't help a decent highschool QB reach an acceptable level of passing efficiency in, say, the 8-to-20-yard range? It couldn't hurt the "3-headed monster"-approach they've been fooling with, and would certainly provide other options and benefits.

 

[GainesvillebornNraised]

reed with a beutiful 31 yd TD pass

 

[DRU2012]

Reed has really opened eyes today--mine included! Now they've opened this "can-of-worms" (Thank the football gods!), the coach(es) can't just cast him aside (well, they COULD, and it would be far from the first baffling thing about how this season's whole approach to offense has been handled, but they won't...PLEASE).

 

[The Zooker]

And Meyer said we can expect to see Jordan Reed throwing the ball against Vandy. No word on if Burton will be allowed to throw. Apparently Burton is pretty inaccurate during practice and easily intercepted.

Told ya.

 

[Escambia94]

Note that the passing stats between JB and Reed were comparable, except for the slightly better YPA from JB and the INT from Reed. Imagine how Reed would have performed if he were the starter on day 1.

 

[DRU2012]

Note that the passing stats between JB and Reed were comparable, except for the slightly better YPA from JB and the INT from Reed. Imagine how Reed would have performed if he were the starter on day 1.

I know you're just "playing with the numbers" but there was no way that was gonna happen this year: hence Reed's title of "ex-QB" coming in.
Thing is, it would have required this coaching staff (from the Head Coach down) facing certain stark truths LAST YEAR, maybe January at the LATEST (before Spring practice, for sure).
Remember, the whole Brantley-"experiment" (and that's what it turned out to be, let's face it) was sold to everyone (JB, his family, the fans, the coaches to THEMSELVES) in a certain way by Spring. By the start of the season we were ALL on board that train.

 

[Escambia94]

I know you're just "playing with the numbers" but there was no way that was gonna happen this year: hence Reed's title of "ex-QB" coming in.
Thing is, it would have required this coaching staff (from the Head Coach down) facing certain stark truths LAST YEAR, maybe January at the LATEST (before Spring practice, for sure).
Remember, the whole Brantley-"experiment" (and that's what it turned out to be, let's face it) was sold to everyone (JB, his family, the fans, the coaches to THEMSELVES) in a certain way by Spring. By the start of the season we were ALL on board that train.

I understand they are just numbers. In the coaches defense, Brantley always looks better in practice. He should. He has been bred for this kind of thing. The son of a Gator QB. Coached by Gator QBs since high school. Probably went to UF at the behest of Bull Gator donators and lifetime Gators. Faithful to the Gator Nation despite the talk order before him of replacing a legend in an offense essentially built for a legend. What is great about this three-headed monster is that it lets Brantley be the starter as a reward for all that he has done, but it also rewards the players who perform on the field, such as Reed and Burton. The problem I have will be if the coaches ever go back to the one-headed monster next year so that JB can try to improve his NFL stock. We cannot keep waiting for JB to just wake up and "get it". Next year we cannot afford to endure another year of JB trying to be a pro-style passer on a team recruited for and coached for the option. Sure, it looked good in the Orange and Blue game for the thousands who saw it, but that will not translate to the field in real games--not this year or next. Brantley would probably do better going to the NFL this year by having a very good Combine, or he can sacrifice his numbers again next year by being part of the three-headed monster.

The numbers also show that JB's efficiency stats (YPA, completion %, TD%) are climbing, but his number of attempts and number of yards are tapering off. I hope the coaches notice that. The most important number is 2-0. The three headed monster is 2-0, whereas the 1-headed monster is 4-3.

 

[DRU2012]

It's one thing for the fans to forget that practice and Spring games are one thing while what happens IN GAME is all that really counts; it's another for the COACHES to lose sight of that--and worse still, to keep "flogging that dead horse" in the vain belief that "all that talent is BOUND to come out, sooner or later".
It's getting "later" all the time, guys. You really want to make changes before hitting "too late".

(I know you get it: your numbers AND analysis prove the point, as well as shine a light on some ways OUT of the mess. I'm trying to boil it down to basic truths--and I address these, somewhat rhetorically, to the staff.)

 

[The Zooker]

Meyer is all about practice. It may be a good quality in that it encourages great production during practice. Or it may be a curse in that it keeps guys like Duke Lemmens in the starting lineup. It's something that Meyer will never change. And I think that has a lot to do with our troubles with defensive linemen. These stud recruits never gave 100% during their high school practices. They never had to. They were physical freaks that dominated the competition by putting forward 50%. Game time comes and they put on a show, but practice on Monday is back to half speed. That won't cut it in the SEC. So lots of D-linemen go through some growing pains when joining the squad.

 

[DRU2012]

OK, but you STILL look to put the BEST PLAYERS on the field at game-time, right? I know it's a little more complicated than that, and that's where all these "gray areas" come into it, but THAT'S part of the Head Coach's job, too--to find and nurture talent, then MOTIVATE them. It's up to his staff to get them "game-ready". I understand that Coach Meyer has his own strong ideas on how a team "PREPARES for success", but something seems to have gotten lost along the line this season. I'm hoping that "something" isn't flexibility, the need and will to adapt.