I Don't Think We're Gonna Make it With Mac

[DRU2012]

Look, first off: I WANNA be wrong wrong WRONG...
And yeah, it seems a bit early to write off our Head Coach. But I am very serious when I talk about this recruiting cycle being "make or break" CRUCIAL to our program's future, and therefore our COACH'S as well.
I know all the rationales for "patience" and "not getting caught up in the media hype" for the few high profile 5-stars etc etc--but we continue NOT getting the ones WE covet and need the best at, game-changers we've needed but haven't closed the deal on in YEARS.
A recruiting-class ranked in the 20s will basically close the book on "The Mac Era"; it'll be a relatively slow death, take a year or two til actual results will seal his fate by the end of the 2018 season, latest. If he doesn't SOMEHOW get this ship righted and tearing things up here after all rest of the way post-season leading up to NSD, WE had best move on "Goodbye/Good luck (good riddance)" ASAP--we are sinking and are soon to be STUCK back at perrennial also-rans once more.
I DON'T WANNA HEAR ANYMORE OF THIS SELF-SATISFIED HAPPY TALK ABOUT HOW WE'RE "A PRETTY GOOD TEAM AFTERALL", HOW "HARD THESE GUYS WORK" AND HOW "PROUD I AM OF THEM"...
Hey Mac--did you EVER see your supposed "mentor" Saban strokin' losers or worrying about their fragile egos???

GE regulars: Am I missing something? Tell me I'm wrong! Show us where there's cause for hope, ANY sign of a pending surge-at-the-end of recruiting to augment talent somehow "hidden" over on the current bench that should make next year's team the first big step in our "unstoppable return to steamrolling success"!
Otherwise wake me when it's finally time to go find ANOTHER "promising young Head Coach with a PLAN"...
I mean, DAMN!--What's it gonna TAKE for us to go out, find and GET a Coach who is WORTH whatever crazed money we throw at "the NEXT guy"???

 

[miltongator]

IMHO, you are spot on. His future all boils down to recruiting. With a top 5 or 10 class, I feel Mac is capable of competing with the best. But, with the new Coaches coming in all over Florida, the recruiting job just got much harder.
I'm not sure why he hasn't been able to get it done, but a 20 to 25 class will put the handwriting on the wall for his future here.

 

[Leakfan12]

I know things could be better though the rest of the SEC East aren't much better. It helps that Florida has played in the SEC title game the past I more worried about in-state rivals than the SEC East and the amount of good coaches this state has. I'm surprised Con U keeps getting talent year after year though they haven't been any good in ten years. FSU will be a pain and possibly Charlie Strong, who might surprise people and take a few four/five star recruits from the big schools (OK a bit of a stretch but not everyone will play for the big three Florida schools). Then again, it depends how the recruits play in college. The Gators had top 5, top 10 recruiting during the Muschoke years and that didn't go well (outside of 2012). I think Iowa in the Outback Bowl will be a win. Also outside of starting against Michigan, 2017 could be a great year. Only three true road games (Kentucky, Mizzo, and South Carolina). If things are done right next year, this could be a 10 win season. The biggest thing is to get a reliable quarterback which has been lacking since Tebow. Guessing Del Rio will be the starter unless Franks impresses enough to beat out LDR. I'm not ready to write off Coach Mac yet. Probably depends on the what happens in 2017 and if the offense produces.

 

[DRU2012]

IMHO, you are spot on. His future all boils down to recruiting. With a top 5 or 10 class, I feel Mac is capable of competing with the best. But, with the new Coaches coming in all over Florida, the recruiting job just got much harder.
I'm not sure why he hasn't been able to get it done, but a 20 to 25 class will put the handwriting on the wall for his future here.

Exactly.
Not happy about ANY of it, but there it all is. And WITH these guys in particular coming in NOW, like you say, "only gonna get harder". Yeah, we're "still UF"--but unless we turn it around quick and that'll mean less'n'less in a HURRY.
All and all, he has this cycle and the 2017 season to follow to get it done, start the Big Bounce Back or else. And PLEASE don't try and sell "back to back East 'Championships' " as anything more than what it is: our one crumb of self-congratulatory dignity--only to get embarrassed AGAIN, to cap our seemingly annual end-of-season swoon (against "SEC teams that matter") in the actual conference "Championship" Game.
Go ahead, tell your TEAM whatever you must, nurse that collective chip on their shoulders with an eye towards working them harder than EVER in the weeks, months, SEASONS ahead it'll take, of constant sweat and sacrifice you'll demand to sustain them when nobody's watching but you, the staff and each other.
But it doesn't mean CRAP to us by now:
We know just as well as you do that you either fill out this squad with "playas", PRONTO, get'em, build'em up and into something special that you have a plan for--or it just won't be enough. Sorry, but we've BEEN patient...
What--you didn't GET that when you came here? You had to be up to speed and ready to move up and INTO national contention by Year 3...You were never gonna get more than passing credit for "keeping us competitive with great D" these last coupla years--hell, Muschamp manage that and was GONE after 4, and HE started with a baron cupboard. No, the key was and always has BEEN "How fast can you field an exciting, dangerous Gator program that everyone (above all the FANS) could see was on-the-come?"
Look, Will M mighta burned some of the time YOU shoulda/woulda/coulda been given here--but that writing was on the wall when you took the job: You NEVER had "5 years to get us back". Now you got MAYBE "One to show we're SOLID on-track", and "One more after that to make GOOD on it".
Any trend AWAY from all that ("trend" amounting to a coupla bad losses to teams we "should beat") and you won't get even that much.
Welcome to the SEC--and the world YOUR MENTOR in Tuscaloosa has made.

 

[DRU2012]

I know things could be better though the rest of the SEC East aren't much better. It helps that Florida has played in the SEC title game the past I more worried about in-state rivals than the SEC East and the amount of good coaches this state has. I'm surprised Con U keeps getting talent year after year though they haven't been any good in ten years. FSU will be a pain and possibly Charlie Strong, who might surprise people and take a few four/five star recruits from the big schools (OK a bit of a stretch but not everyone will play for the big three Florida schools). Then again, it depends how the recruits play in college. The Gators had top 5, top 10 recruiting during the Muschoke years and that didn't go well (outside of 2012). I think Iowa in the Outback Bowl will be a win. Also outside of starting against Michigan, 2017 could be a great year. Only three true road games (Kentucky, Mizzo, and South Carolina). If things are done right next year, this could be a 10 win season. The biggest thing is to get a reliable quarterback which has been lacking since Tebow. Guessing Del Rio will be the starter unless Franks impresses enough to beat out LDR. I'm not ready to write off Coach Mac yet. Probably depends on the what happens in 2017 and if the offense produces.

Man, I hope you're right--about all your points (more hopeful than my outlook at this point, but all doable--NOT unreasonable "fantasyland" by any means). But right from the start, I believe we are fucked and Mac's fate is sealed if Delrio wins the starting job. Honestly, our "best hope" is that BOTH redshirt freshmen surpass him on merit and performance by mid-summer. With just his 1 year of eligibility left I don't know that he can transfer in any event, but he has PROVEN himself no more than an "adequate emergency backup"/one-or-two-game replacement until a worthy 1st string QB can step back in, at least against the better defenses in the SEC.
And that's something we need to remember: in perception and truth, over all we have GOT to be better than, be able to BEAT THE ELITE of the SEC: If we can and do, the rest'll take care of itself. It's not JUST the questions at quarterback (more stars and depth along both lines, especially and immediately important on the O-line in order to make everything ELSE work), but like I say, Luke healthy and at his best is enough to beat our early season opponents, warm-ups against "pay day teams" and the UKs of the SEC (lose to a coupla those and Mac may not finish THAT season!)...but LDR has shown NOTHING up til now that would indicate he can carry a team when mad skills and clutch plays are the only way to a win.
Maybe I'm wrong: Just going by what we've seen so far, if that's all we've got, I'll root like HELL...but frankly, "If that's all we've got...", if either or BOTH those kids on the bench this past season aren't MUCH more skilled growing up FAST under the tutillage of our supposedly "offensive guru" of a Head Coach and his "handpicked, talented and creative offense-minded braintrust" over there, well, then we were sold bill-of-goods when he AND they came in here 2 years ago.

 

[Leakfan12]

IMHO, you are spot on. His future all boils down to recruiting. With a top 5 or 10 class, I feel Mac is capable of competing with the best. But, with the new Coaches coming in all over Florida, the recruiting job just got much harder.
I'm not sure why he hasn't been able to get it done, but a 20 to 25 class will put the handwriting on the wall for his future here.

Don't think they need to have top 5 or top 10 recruiting class, they just need to get the student-athletes to play at the top level. Coach Mac succeed at a place he wasn't getting four or five star recruits. Probably not even the three star recruits (I know I know this ain't Colorado State but there's always hidden gems [student-athletes] explain why Carson Wentz was a 2nd overall pick out of North Dakota State). Quarterback is the biggest need probably the O-line and WRs as well.

 

[miltongator]

Don't think they need to have top 5 or top 10 recruiting class, they just need to get the student-athletes to play at the top level. Coach Mac succeed at a place he wasn't getting four or five star recruits. Probably not even the three star recruits (I know I know this ain't Colorado State but there's always hidden gems [student-athletes] explain why Carson Wentz was a 2nd overall pick out of North Dakota State). Quarterback is the biggest need probably the O-line and WRs as well.

I wonder how Colorado State would have done in the SEC. Probably would have won the East and then gotten blown away in the championship game. We're THE UNIVERSITY OF FRICKIN FLORIDA! There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to get our share of the best talent in the State. If we don't get some of those Blue Chippers, something needs to change. Not necessarily Coach Mac, but that IS where the buck stops.

 

[miltongator]

As a PS to the above: Maybe it's the strength and conditioning coach (injuries), maybe it's the O-line coach, maybe it's the recruiting co-ordinator. I'm not smart enough to know what the disfunction is, but there must be an answer somewhere. I'm sure Coach Mac is working on it feverishly so let's see what happens. My fingers will remain crossed.

 

[miltongator]

PPS: At last count 9 SEC teams are presently ranked ahead of us in recruiting.......9

 

[DRU2012]

Don't think they need to have top 5 or top 10 recruiting class, they just need to get the student-athletes to play at the top level. Coach Mac succeed at a place he wasn't getting four or five star recruits. Probably not even the three star recruits (I know I know this ain't Colorado State but there's always hidden gems [student-athletes] explain why Carson Wentz was a 2nd overall pick out of North Dakota State). Quarterback is the biggest need probably the O-line and WRs as well.

Look, I agree to a certain extent--and WANNA agree a whole lot more, believe me. But I think you may be WAY under-emphasizing the degree to which UF "isn't Colo St", and this sure as HELL ain't the PAC 12 (you aren't alone in this last point--I don't care WHAT the socalled "experts" peddle for their own sales and assorted propagandanistic reasons on Sports TV and radio, the SEC "in a down year" is still a far tougher league top to bottom than that late aft/evening west coast broadcast time-filler), which I KNOW you also know.
We all assumed, and still hope there was and IS something to that very assumption--that what Mac did in that situation had aspects that were applicable to and might transfer well to exactly the problems we faced here at UF. I'm hoping otherwise, but it's possible he's squandered a good deal of his first 2 years here--unless there's at LEAST one star QB already sitting on the sideline thru a redshirt ( and, if not TWO, the other at LEAST turns out a "formidable backup"), then on top of all the other needs and spaces that must be filled/addressed, they will damn well HAVE to hit the jackpot at QB NOW--and considering how that generally goes and specifically HASN'T worked out in G-ville in YEARS (despite our having carried our momentum of "Championships and Heismanns"-rep on for a few years there and HAD grabbed our choice of prep-talent in Fla accordingly), this Coach and his staff's future is precarious enough just trying to bring in "a real promising kid we can work with and bring along" while they concentrate on getting things headed strongly in the right direction with one of the kids they already have--and a stronger, deeper O-line to protect him AND open holes for Scarlett and Co.
Again, put like that, it does sound doable, but make no mistake: All that does require a lotta things to go right--all revolving around personnel...Some based on who we already have, the rest on who and what we are able to GO OUT AND GET.
OK--it doesn't necessarily depend on where the "experts" rank these kids OR the recruiting class overall. That's especially true at QB (--the dark truth of which we have had to learn and endure repeatedly here at UF over the last 7 or 8 years...No use retracing all that now--tho one wonders how different these last 10 years or so might have been if Cam Newton hadn't tossed that laptop out the highrise apt's window--but then again that wouldn't have changed what horses asses his father, Urban Meyer OR the collection of over-rated dramaqueens the latter had assembled here and stuck us with by the time he arranged his golden parachute out and up to OSU! But I digress...LOL--yeah, do I EVER!).
Back to "recruit rankings": I get your point re not having to be "Top 5" or anything else in particular: far as the way I am using it, I mean it as a kind of shorthand for "they better get it done!"--AND also note, btw, the less widely acknowledged as "all around high grade", the more exposed Mac and his recruiters will be if/when this class DOESN'T work out.
Do you see then how it really boils down to a "Do or die, RIGHT NOW"- situation, from my POV? I sure hope Mac does. I'd be more confident if he didn't make some of the PC/"Coachspeak" comments he has tended to go to after games, especially the last few, wins AND losses.

I wonder how Colorado State would have done in the SEC. Probably would have won the East and then gotten blown away in the championship game. We're THE UNIVERSITY OF FRICKIN FLORIDA! There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to get our share of the best talent in the State. If we don't get some of those Blue Chippers, something needs to change. Not necessarily Coach Mac, but that IS where the buck stops.

"Like" AND "Agree"...Yes: We ARE "the University of frickin Florida", damnit...
Nicely sums up my view of "the bottom line here...

 

[DRU2012]

As a PS to the above: Maybe it's the strength and conditioning coach (injuries), maybe it's the O-line coach, maybe it's the recruiting co-ordinator. I'm not smart enough to know what the disfunction is, but there must be an answer somewhere. I'm sure Coach Mac is working on it feverishly so let's see what happens. My fingers will remain crossed.

PPS: At last count 9 SEC teams are presently ranked ahead of us in recruiting.......9

Yeah. Just in "relative" (rather than absolute "accuracy") terms, that all comprises a set of "very bad signs":
And at this point, I just don't see us having some contrarian treasure trove of hidden nuggets and "diamonds in the rough" from which Mac and his genius staff are about to pull a "Shock the WORLD" rabbit outta the hat from the mythical "coaching backroads", some unknown network of single-A swamp-bound 1-room Florida school house teams...and unless we are about to see some sort of completely unprecedented avalanche of last minute flips, this staff never DID turn enough attention to, nor apparently had the skills or organization among them to get the job done in the first place. I can't believe they never recognized what they HAD to get done here, above all, no matter what, if they wanted to stay and finish the job they supposedly came here to accomplish.
In other words, essentially, our "only hope" is already well on the way to having slipped away:
"Well, we're f*cked, now we're all just playing out the string...meanwhile we get paid, we do what we can with the little we've managed to gather, hang in long as they give us before the inevitable end--and maybe the horse will sing"???
Great. Like I say, I sure hope I'm wrong.
But if not, hell--every one of these people will DESERVE the contempt that Gator fans will heap upon them, come the day.
But then again, "maybe the horse WILL sing"!!!

 

[DRU2012]

Gonna say this all again, as straight and concise as I can:
We MUST hit hard in recruiting this time--WE NEED BETTER PERSONNEL ...Playmakers and depth across the board.
There is little obvious momentum or "buzz" builsing "out there" that indicates we are building towards such a class, which means one of 3 possible good things:
(1) There will be an unprecedented crowd of secretly-arranged "flips" among top Fla commits to the Gator camp come NSD (unlikely--VERY unlikely), or
(2) The "fall-back 3- to 4-star players" we manage to corral instead will virtually all pan out instead, blossom quickly and redeem all Coach Mac's claims, plans and line-of-coackspeak (not AS UNlikely, but not exactly a whole lot more precedented than (a) above, or
(3) Though that just doesn't really happen, we show incremental improvement in enough areas that if/when one of the Redshirt Freshman QBs under Mac and co. turns into "SOMETHING REALLY SPECIAL", things fall enough into place that we win like, 11 games and Coach Mac at LEAST gets ANOTHER year--and (not incidentally) another crack at recruiting Florida, one where he and his staff manage more the kind of haul that IS required, ASAP.(Possible--but as much "on the brink" of failure as success: merely delays it all a year, another shot at it).
...OR, none of the above--in which case we're REALLY saying, the signs are showing even now, signs that either are reversed, and soon, OR (whether it's in 2017 or 2018) he's gone.

 

[Leakfan12]

PPS: At last count 9 SEC teams are presently ranked ahead of us in recruiting.......9

Luckily "only" three in the SEC East but seriously how the blank is Muschoke have a higher rank on the list. Hey the Gators had top five, top ten recruiting class with Muschoke and it didn't work out that well.

 

[DRU2012]

Luckily "only" three in the SEC East but seriously how the blank is Muschoke have a higher rank on the list. Hey the Gators had top five, top ten recruiting class with Muschoke and it didn't work out that well.

True--but at this point we are COUNTING on some "bolt from the blue", "everyone's wrong but our guys" shocker of a turns-out-great-against-all-odds blind luck miracle to turn this around.
I mean, that doesn't strike me as ideal.

 

[DRU2012]

...and anyway, we're seemingly ALREADY the "Beast of the East", and somehow that just isn't filling me with pride and hope.

 

[Leakfan12]

...and anyway, we're seemingly ALREADY the "Beast of the East", and somehow that just isn't filling me with pride and hope.

I know I know, the name of the game to win championships not just get to the SEC title game. It's been hard for any SEC East team to complete against the West. The last time the Eastern team won is the Gators in 2008.

 

[DRU2012]

I know I know, the name of the game to win championships not just get to the SEC title game. It's been hard for any SEC East team to complete against the West. The last time the Eastern team won is the Gators in 2008.

Again: BELIEVE ME, I want us to stick with Mac long enough to see what he can do with an actual "balanced team" (as in "one with an OFFENSE"!); I don't WANNA be right about him already "running outta time" here...BUT:
I think it is just a matter of being "realistic" when it comes to how things are, how time and results are being judged here at UF and how, fair or not, the "sands in the hour glass" were running fast the moment he got here (thanks to everyone/everything that came before), and how he and his staff are gonna find themselves up against ALL OF IT without big strides in the 2017 season.
And it'll only get worse if/when this next recruiting class doesn't appear to be the "homerun-in-the-9th" game-winner fans and pundits are muttering is our "only hope" for that kinda dramatic turnaround now.
I'll talk about the alternatives, the realistic hope for less dire consequences given how things appear to be shaping up, and so on once we GET there, finish the bowl season and see what NSD and its aftermath actually brings. But that's where things stand right now, in a sea of frustration, disappointment and sinking hopes--all based so far on rumor, impression, negative expectations--and things that haven't even HAPPENED yet!