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Rebooting Johnny Brantley

How does Brantley do against FAU?

  • Ekes out 100+ yards for the close one

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    6

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
I trust your insights and analyses, E-, and they do fit with my albeit much more cursory memory of the game-flow-of-events, and while they DO concern me, I am suspending judgement on whether we've seen either the limit of JB's general bag'o'tricks OR Weis' plans for how to use them. I will wait until after this week's game to begin worrying about "what he can't do", how that will hamper us the rest of the season, and what the Coaches can and must do about it.
Everything you say is true, as far as the facts of what we saw--but does that mean he won't try, and MAKE, those throws when the situation calls for it? If your pronouncements are correct, no. However, we've seen him do both in the years leading up to this one: yes, in practice and mop-up before last year, and at least attempting it early last year as the starter, before faltering...the big question THEN becomes, is this really "the New Brantley", the confident leader who is blossoming under Weis' tutilege and has integrated the natural skills we saw before with a calm maturity, or has he permanently "LOST IT"? The implication in your own observations is the latter, that he now can't and won't "just let it fly" as he once did, that every problem you describe is a result of #12 being, in a fundamental way, now ruled by fear. By this view, the confidence he now exudes is just an overlay, good enough to serve him as long as he remains in a "safe comfort zone" where he can either hand off to a running back or hit them or some other "out guy" in the flat, on the corner, or short-over-the-middle and let THEM get the necessary yardage. Well, either Weis knows this and that's all we'll see, or Brantley will soon be exposed. We will see for ourselves by example or omission I think in this next game--which is a good thing, 'cause if it really is as you say, that just won't get it done and we'll need to start phasing in Driskell a lot sooner than would be ideal.
I can't quite figure how I ended up John Brantley IV's "defender in the court of (semi-) public opinion", if only for a few days, but I want to see how things go against UAB before making hard judgments. For the moment, I choose to accept the Coaches' claims, the players' attitudes and my own optimistic impressions of #12's in-game demeanor and performance at relatively face value: it would be the best thing that could happen for the sake of this season AND the future, it's true, but that does not blind me. He too must continue to learn, grow and build on that first performance--and we MUST stretch the field, as you put it "pop the umbrella", and I expect to see some work in this area on Saturday. Not only does he need to show himself, the team and the coaches that we HAVE this capability (and "practice makes perfect" is more than just words!), it is of great importance that we show future opponents that we have it, for the sake of our RB's, AND to loosen up the short-to-middle-game that will give this year's team its ball-control capability. With what may very well be growing into a dominating, shut-down defense, strong special teams, some long quick strike threat and the ability to chew up big chunks of time and ground yardage, this team could eventually emerge a true contender for the SEC-East crown this season after all.
On the other hand, there's your alternative view of and possible outcome from the same basic set of incomplete data, courtesy of the same, soul "Game 1" from which we're extrapolating. Here's one thought: if things are as you say, then Weis (and Coach M) knows it, and the whole way they brought Driskell in relatively early, when things were going apparently so smoothly, and the explanations they gave later (this regime already shows a unique "disinformational" style, after all), in truth may turn out to be the beginning of a subtle, "under-the-radar" way of phasing in their QB-of-the-not-so-distant-future in a non-controversial, non-team-splitting way. Of course, this could only work for a certain limited length of time, but "ideally" (if that is a word you can use here) the charade would become a moot point--they'd be ready to start Driskell about the same time Brantley's true limitations (and by that point, likely outright failures) had become obvious to all.
Sure sounds less-than-inspiring, though. I am a realist in the face of facts, hard data, but that's not where we are now. I believe there is at least room for hope, for optimism. There is, after all, a pretty cool middle ground, a possible path of decent success where THIS year's #12 is your "bridge", a sort of Sabelhaus/Leak who is just good enough, has just enough of the necessary poise, efficiency and skill to get us through a 9 or 10 win season, while everything ELSE, including the education and growth of our NEXT QB, comes together. I know (and hope I'm ready for the possibility, even likelihood) that my newfound hope for more may very well be unrealistic, but it IS still out there: we just don't know yet. We'll know a lot more after this weekend (I think I will, anyway).
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
As we all know, it is rather early. My analysis can only take into account 60 minutes of football and infinite history. I am not saying it is too late for JB4 to learn, adapt, and reboot his career. Based on what I saw, he is not living up to his potential. He just have LSU and FSU the road map to beating us--soft zone and throw it over the middle. We can only hope they practice the deep ball or some crossing routes.
 

Swamp Person

Swamp Gator
"We only did like six plays, that's it the whole game," joked senior RB Chris Rainey.

Lets hope its the truth. I feel they got more up their sleeve. Maybe they're not showing all their cards as of yet. It would only stand to reason told hold out other plays until needed. Which we didn't need last week. It would keep other teams from being able to dissect our future so soon. Remember our spring training or practices are on a down low to the public. But I'm with you E John Brantley DOES GOT to get the deep one in there to try to balance it out. Those two INT do worry me and I'm sure it does the Coaching staff. My self I'm just going to sit back and let those who get the big bucks decide on what they need to do with JB. I'm just hoping to enjoy the ride.

Go Gators.....<CHOMP>
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
I'm telling you: we'll learn a lot from this next game. "Not showing too much" is one thing--but ya gotta know if the things you've been working on can be duplicated in a real game, especially in THIS case: as I said before, for the sake of Brantley, the team, the coaches AND our opponents down the road (remember what happened last year once other teams felt they could just ignore the supposed "threat" we'd do something we hadn't done or even shown we COULD do before).
 

CaliZona_Gator

Super Senior Member
Even if we only ran 6 plays, that's 3 more plays than we ran all of last year!!!!

In just the one game I already felt like we had way better passing routes compared to last year. And watching the game on TV, I couldn't always see if the deeper routes were open. So, from what I saw, the swing passes were the right read for JB, they were leaving them wide open, and couldn't catch up with Rainey & Demps.

I almost never saw FAU's safeties, so that tells me they were not playing up too much, which means the short routes are the right read. But again, I couldn't always see the deeper routes.
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
Oddly enough, the NCAA power rankings have Florida #1 and Alabama #3. However they sort out the stats, they like JB4 a lot more than I do. Hopefully I am wrong. Gator Gurus also had nothing but good to say about the Florida offense and even tempted me to re reevaluate my analysis. If we run more than six plays, bend the defense, and wake up our secondary, even a little bit against UAB, then I will admit I was wrong on my analysis and should cut Brantley some slack. There are some compelling arguments to say that I am being too negative...
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Ya know, earlier today I had a pretty good analysis written here that answered Caliz' thoughts and anticipated a good bit of E's, all about how FAU dropped into "DOUBLE-doubles", and sometimes even added a 5th deep cover guy, as their way of game-planning against our speed, especially deep, and daring us to run, how it burnt them 'cause JB IV did the right thing there and either checked off to the run on the edge or pass-to-the-flats, or flipped it to the TE coming off his block there when the mid-to-deep ball wasn't open, and how UAB AND WEIS would be WELL aware of that--and UAB would do something quite different, probably squeeze the line, put more men in the box and DARE us to throw long, at least in any and all ?-and-long situations until we proved we could hurt 'em there, and that Charlie would be way ahead of me, them and this week's considerations by having anticipated and begun preparing to "unveil" just this facet of Brantley's game during the spring and summer for its use at about JUST this point in the early going. I also noted once again that #12 HAD to show us, the coaches, the players and FUTURE OPPONENTS that this was in his and our arsenal for the rest of our offense to run with smooth consistency, and even broke down the question-marks inherent in E's criticisms and concerns at things that DIDN't go well for him in the opener, what and why those were questions yet to be answered. Unfortunately, I had to go out and I guess I shut things down without ever actually hitting the "Post Reply" box and, since I just am not up to fully reconstituting it, this sort of glossed-over version will have to suffice (I think I cover some of what's now missing in the thread, "UAB: Prediction Time", though). I know: you are all sad with disappointment.
 

Swamp Person

Swamp Gator
E Noted :There are some compelling arguments to say that I am being too negative...

I said in the beginning I hope mine isn't " wishful thinking" :cautious:. I'm trying my best to see where the cards fall. I will be honest by the end of last year I was DONE with JB wanting him to just leave, quit or something besides being a thorn in my side on game day. He sucked in my opinion!! So I wouldn't say your comments are too negative. I would say your calling it like you see it. There is nothing wrong with that at all. I for one haven't even rewound a single play of the game.( I got burned out doing it last year ) lol.We got to get the right men in there for the job. I don't care who or what he is. That's the bottom line.

DRU Noted : I'm telling you: we'll learn a lot from this next game.

Your so right. And you know what ? It's SHOWTIME ! Today is the day we been waiting for. So maybe we might find some answers to the questions we been asking ourselves and each other this week.

I joined this forum because I enjoy reading several of Y'alls opinions with the no sugar coated bs other forums give.

Go Gators!!!! <CHOMP>
 

CaliZona_Gator

Super Senior Member
I joined this forum because I enjoy reading several of Y'alls opinions with the no sugar coated bs other forums give.

The reason you don't see the sugar coated posts is because of the disappointment last year. I, and many others at GE, were not at all prepared for what happened last year. Yes, there were a lot of questions and uncertainties, but we were very hopeful for the season, thinking we would continue to out perform most opponents with a whole bunch of new faces. Then we all got slapped in the face.

I'm not allowing myself to be slapped in the face this year.
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
The reason you don't see the sugar coated posts is because of the disappointment last year. I, and many others at GE, were not at all prepared for what happened last year. Yes, there were a lot of questions and uncertainties, but we were very hopeful for the season, thinking we would continue to out perform most opponents with a whole bunch of new faces. Then we all got slapped in the face.

I'm not allowing myself to be slapped in the face this year.

To be honest, I think we have a very stable, albeit smaller, user base on GE. I visit other Gator forums, and in my opinion, they have way too many uneducated kiddies, fair weather fans, loudmouth blowhards, and sunshine pumpers. Everyone here is very level headed. Everyone seems okay with interjecting their own opinions, and I have never seen anyone attack another (like most other boards). This environment breeds really good conversation, which means no sugar coating. I think we can all agree that psychologically, the Gator Nation was hurt by last year. "Slapped in the face." That is a good way to put it. I know that personally, that means I tend to lean too much to the negative. I hope I can fix that later in the season, but I need to see more out of our playmakers before I make that level of commitment.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
All too true...maybe one reason we have any optimism at ALL has to do with the changes from top to bottom in coaching (especially at OC, of course, and yes, Head Coach--that's an epic tale right THERE), and how clear it is becoming that that is reflected on and off the field. I can't begin to tell y'all how much I appreciate GE--which, after all, is completely a reflection of all of you, your intelligence, insight and humor--and the quality of discussion. No empty blather OR cheap shots here.
We may have a smaller user base than some of the large public media sites, as E- says (not necessarily a bad thing), but it isn't limited to the current core-group of regular commenters. If you note the running log (upper right corner of the "HOME" page) of viewers (in addition to "members") you'll see there are ALWAYS at least a few dozen who are reading/monitoring our posts, even in the wee hours (and much larger numbers in prime time, and especially game days). I'm thinking the quality of discourse attracts readers, but it also makes this clear: everyone is welcome, but make sure you have something to say. There are some long-timers who I think will straggle in as we get to the "meat" of the schedule (hey, even the Swamp isn't selling out so far this year--and tho' I'm sure that is in PART a function of the economy, that "we been bit bad before"-hangover from last year you speak of is affecting everyone out there), and we've got some good ones who post less often but who make it count when they do, so I'm content.

Meanwhile, the first wave of early games are well under way on the various cable channels (I'm on that "Highlight Express" channel, switching over to actual games when they look interesting). FAU started pretty strong offensively against Mich. St, driving the field--then bogged down and PUNTED at the Spartan 32(!)...In their house?!!--don't you guys learn ANYTHING? Game over (too bad--would have been great for our SOS if they could have made a game of it--as if THAT'll be a problem by November). Here comes MSU: the Bulldogs started slow but are rolling now, tied but not for long, I'd wager--they'll pull away. KY has its hands full w/Cent. Mich.--c'mon, guys, they're no slouches, we all know that by now, but y'all come out every year and say, "We are comin' on now, we've got an OFFENSE this year!", and so on, then lay and egg early and it's downhill from there. Sigh. I guess we'll just have to "hang half a hundred on ya" AND shut you out to get any traction at all in moving up the polls before Alabama. Guess it doesn't matter much, when you stop and think about it: as long as we are unbeaten going in, how we perform there will determine the scale of our dreams and what's possible for the rest of the season.
 

CaliZona_Gator

Super Senior Member
Don't get me wrong, I am not attributing the fair opinions just to our performance last year. I am very glad we have a small group. I honestly view everyone here as the true Gator fans. That is, we love our Gators with all our might, but still keep a level head. A true Gator fan, to me, is one that knew Chris Leak was the starter in 2006, and Tim Tebow was the backup. It's those bandwagon Tebow/Gator fans that give us a bad rap. Anyways, I still wish we had a few more consistent posters.

I did a little GE research, and I am pretty sure that I am the member who has been here the longest (and still posts). I joined in February of '07 when I realized that out here in California I had no one to talk to about Gator sports, and have been posting frequently ever since (I believe GE was started in December of 2006). And keep in mind I am only 20 years old.

Leakfan12 has been here since '07 as well. But this site has seen some changes. Mr2Bits & PhdGator used to be the Mods around here, but they no longer show up, and now Robdog has taken over as the Mod.

And as E & Dru said, we keep a level head compared to other sites. College sports is serious in the south. I know there are a lot of idiots on other forums (Gator & the rest of the SEC) who just post stupid stuff and are annoying.

I went to a UAB forum the day before the game and checked out their score prediction thread. 12 posts, all but one said that UAB would win. And the one who predicted a Gator win was put on blast for not being a true fan. And all of their posts referred to us as the "gaytors" or some other terrible spelling of Gators. Whenever I see someone write "gaytors" I don't get offended.... it's just extremely juvenile.

These were hardcore UAB fans. Most were apart of the forum since 2004 and a lot of them attend every UAB game. But that does not make a true fan.

Now I know we have our own fun at our opponents. We make fun of FSU and Miami quite a bit, but that's about it. We don't really go out of our way to insult other opponents. When GE was started, it's tagline was "mature Gator sports discussion" and that is exactly what I am looking for.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Interesting perspective--I didn't know that background on where GE started philosophy-wise, but it really does show--and it fits. It's a God-send for me and, I suspect, all of the passionate-yet-intelligent fans I have encountered here and gotten somewhat to know. I notice that there are a certain portion of formerly regular posters who haven't been around lately; some I DO expect to pop up to join us now and then as the season progresses--but if the current regulars keep things going and the discussion remains as lively, insightful, informative and uniquely balanced as to opinion, outlook and humor, I'm content.
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
Sports fans are allowed to have some fun on a forum, but it does help when the conversation is mature. I forgot that was the tagline on GE when I joined in 2008. I came here because I used to post my own statistics and analysis on another forum, and watched a lot of kiddies bashing the numbers saying statistics are just made up to support an opinion. As a space systems engineer, I can tell you that numbers are very important to me and I do not make any assertions without numbers to back it up, or I tell you outright that this is just an uneducated opinion.
 

InkedAdrenaline

VIP Member
^ya it is kind of nice to have a forum without ignorance!!! I love GE. I'm on an Audi forum and it's WAyy different there. Alot of spoiled lil punks that got an Audi as a bdAy gift and talk alot of trash/ignorance that they have no clue about.

(boy did this thread get off topic lol)
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
So here's something that actually WOKE ME UP (relatively) early Sunday morning (well, before I meant to get up, anyway...). It had been going around in my head even before this 2nd game, clearly: you can see it starting to fall into place for a number of us as we talk all around it, throwing out the supporting evidence in our comments on certain subjects and worries.
Columnists, the so-called "experts" in the media have been telling us since the spring about the "vacuum" at WR on the Gator offense, how "someone needs to step up" to claim that role, "the go-to guy deep"-guy. WE know that Deonte "Brickhands" Thompson will never fill those shoes, no matter how many short-to-medium passes he holds onto when the pressure ISN'T on. We wonder about Dubose, why HE doesn't get more chances--he has the moves in the open field, it's true (and I cannot believe our sharp and aware coaches are blind to this); perhaps those whispers of him STILL having trouble with the playbook and audibles at the line of scrimmage are part of it, but I'm convinced that can't be the whole story. After all, along with other WRs of varied styles, skills and talents, there is Dunbar, who shows every sign of being a classic tall, fast, long-limbed smooth-striding receiver who can and WILL go go out long and climb-the-air for it. If they were missing "That Guy", you'd think they'd be giving Quinton every chance at claiming that spot on the roster.
OK, here it is (if you're not there already, way ahead of me):
The question is, "What's missing from our long passing game?" The assumed answer from everyone "out there" has been, "No 'go-to' guy" . What if that is simply wrong? What if WE have long since simply answered that simple question?
What if the REAL answer is, "John Brantley cannot throw the long ball with any kind of accuracy or consistency." ?
It sure would explain a LOT about Brantley, last year and this year, what the coaches are saying and what is in fact happening on and off the field. Think about it. Brantley is asked to be the "confident field general", running the offense within his now-limited comfort-zone that (so far) has been more than adequate thanks to our playmakers getting the ball on plays designed NOT to expose #12's weaknesses; all the while, Driskel is being brought along steadily, in a low key , almost-under-the-radar fashion, in the hope that he'll be "ready" (or at least not "lost and confused") if/when the offense faces "that desperate moment" (say, behind-but-close, late in a rival-game. where JB is hurt, and/or has thrown multiple interceptions, and we need the QB to rally the team).
I'm not saying this is The Answer. I'm not even necessarily saying it is PART of The Answer--it just FITS; follow it along down any logic-train and you'll see. What is cool about it, too, is that it leaves room for "best-case scenarios" AND various "unknowns" and "A/B options". For example, THIS way also leaves open for now the possibility that, if these "difficulties" with JB are temporary (ie. "in his head", maybe courtesy of LAST year), then nothing changes but the fact that he goes on to actually DO the things we are all hoping he and the coaches INTENDED to do in the games ahead in the FIRST place--including open up the vertical game. And so on...anyway, play with it and tell me what you think.
 

InkedAdrenaline

VIP Member
Well Brantley has definitely improved, but yes I don't think he as that long ball capability (tho I hope I'm wrong). Either way we are obviously using him where he is strongest, at the 2-3 yrd passes and counting on those yards after the catch.
 

Swamp Person

Swamp Gator
Heck I'm troubled with his ability with the short stuff. When the field shortens up in the redzone its like everything freezes up. Its seems to be, run it in there or nothing else. Very good points DRU I know were searching for something. But as I noted else where on here Saturday sent me into orbit with the 3 point scores when it should of produced 7. Does he have the ability to chose quickly where and when to throw it even when the field shortens much less the longggg one? I've still not seen no proof yet. During the game the announcers were saying how CW was working to rebuild his (JB) confidence and how good CW was at not getting players outside of their comfort zone (ability). Well I don't know if CW knows this or not but in my opinion were fixing to start playing teams who force you to give 200% and take you out of your comfort zone to get it done. To me it means, getting it DONE with YOUR ability.

Our running game looks great, but honestly our guys are not the helmet to helmet up the gut type built to survive a whole season of redzone failures do to a NO throwing threat. They will get wore down or just outright beat-up. And if that is all we got then Tennessee, Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, STH Carolina, and FSU should have a field day with us. The Big Boys are coming and they will be coming to play for 4 - 15 mins quarters on every end of the field. And yes with good coaching to boot.

Don't take this as being negative on our youngmen but there is still the burning question if JB is really stepping up.

I know others here have and will take this further then I just did but I hope I've been honest with my opinion.
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
I have to assume UT has watched some film on us and sees the lack of a deep ball. They got good pressure last week, so they may try.stuffing the box to limit Shake and Bake. That puts pressure on Brantley to make throws that we have not seen. We can use a few screens, but SEC teams will catch on to that. I think the first true test will be this week. Can Brantley step up to the task? We shall see. Based on limited information, I think not. I hope I am wrong.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Me too. This would definitely be the time, seems to me. Yes, we have a strong defense that appears to be coming on, on its way to becoming SCARY-good, but though the running game has been crucial, it is NOT the kind of pound-it-out, wear-'em-down attack (see Alabama) that you can count on to win with by itself--and crowding the box can shut down it AND the short passing game. Of course, it means selling out early and often by the opposing "D", and we all know how you beat that: Stretch. The. Field. If the Vol defense goes that route, we can BURN them, repeatedly, until they drop into deeper, looser coverages--and we'll have the lead AND them on their heals by then, IF JB can throw the long ball early(and of course the WRs CATCH it, which, as I have outlined elsewhere, may not be the main problem after all--with the possible exception of Mr. Thompson).
 

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