crmixon
Gator Fan
Did everyone see that Rival's will now only consider players who have signed in their rankings? No longer will verbals count towards a school's total ranking.
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Rival's new ranking criteria
- Thread starter crmixon
- Start date
In the words of the great Steven Orr Spurrier:
The answer is coaching. Believe in our coaches. If they are the superior coaches, they will assemble the best team based on the talent available.
It's been a bit of a let down, regardless, but we could see this coming--for a lot of reasons. We seem to have lost most of the ones the "signs" said were going against us in the final days, and mostly to rivals, either SEC or cross-state. Picked up a couple of "extras", though, didn't miss out on ALL of the "good 'uns" who waited 'til the end to commit. Given the circumstances (the fact and TIMING of our coaching changes, player personalities and uncertainties, prior relationships, and so on) I think we need to temper the level of both expectation and disappointment. Either way, I'm not so sure I'd characterize ANYONE as "whooping our ass".
First of all, we are only NOW about to really "cash in" on our LAST class, essentially the No.1 recruiting class from 2010--we'll begin reaping the benefits of all that talent (especially on defense) this coming season. Second, it looks like we've at least addressed big needs on the D-line and elsewhere--and done it with 4-star or better talent. Personally, I completely agree with Muschamp's approach to recruiting quality, not quantity, and not "filling out" a signing class with a bunch of "pretty good" guys just for the sake of "the numbers"...he's going for GATORS, players he and his staff have evaluated and positively WANT; they're not gonna "settle" for anything. Those scholarship spots are VALUABLE; Chomp and Co. understand that you don't fritter them away, but rather put the rest in your pocket for NEXT year--which, by the way, I believe will very likely be a KILLER class for our program.
Which brings us to the third point: the rankings are not sacrosanct. They are a yardstick of relative potential in the players available in a particular year. The main idea is to keep the talent flowing, year to year over time. Sure, you want to get as many of the guys you target as you can, but as long as you stay true to your plan and get a decent share of the young men who appear to match or exceed the high standards you set, things will likely be OK over time. No one knows the future, where injury, unforeseen circumstance, hidden realities and/or other dramatic changes can alter all expectations. There will be disappointments and hidden gems.
We can be reasonably sure we held our own this time--and just as sure that this staff will pull out all the stops to really GET IT DONE next time. Meanwhile, the pipeline continues to flow, the cupboard is FAR from bare, and I'm excited to see what they'll be able to do with the talent, depth and speed we can field now.
First of all, we are only NOW about to really "cash in" on our LAST class, essentially the No.1 recruiting class from 2010--we'll begin reaping the benefits of all that talent (especially on defense) this coming season. Second, it looks like we've at least addressed big needs on the D-line and elsewhere--and done it with 4-star or better talent. Personally, I completely agree with Muschamp's approach to recruiting quality, not quantity, and not "filling out" a signing class with a bunch of "pretty good" guys just for the sake of "the numbers"...he's going for GATORS, players he and his staff have evaluated and positively WANT; they're not gonna "settle" for anything. Those scholarship spots are VALUABLE; Chomp and Co. understand that you don't fritter them away, but rather put the rest in your pocket for NEXT year--which, by the way, I believe will very likely be a KILLER class for our program.
Which brings us to the third point: the rankings are not sacrosanct. They are a yardstick of relative potential in the players available in a particular year. The main idea is to keep the talent flowing, year to year over time. Sure, you want to get as many of the guys you target as you can, but as long as you stay true to your plan and get a decent share of the young men who appear to match or exceed the high standards you set, things will likely be OK over time. No one knows the future, where injury, unforeseen circumstance, hidden realities and/or other dramatic changes can alter all expectations. There will be disappointments and hidden gems.
We can be reasonably sure we held our own this time--and just as sure that this staff will pull out all the stops to really GET IT DONE next time. Meanwhile, the pipeline continues to flow, the cupboard is FAR from bare, and I'm excited to see what they'll be able to do with the talent, depth and speed we can field now.
BTW, I just read that G-ville Sun column about how Jernigan's coach said the kid (and by this evidence that's exactly what he must be--a petulant child) "felt betrayed by Florida" when both the head coach and other Gator coaches who had been courting him suddenly left the program--and he held this against Muschamp and Co. BECAUSE they were from UF, the school that had "deceived" him. Never mind that he had supposedly been a lifelong Gator fan who grew up 30 miles from the campus. Never mind that Muschamp obviously had NOTHING to do with the original "betrayal"--as his highschool coach says he kept trying to remind Jernigan of. Oh, and never mind that in the interim he apparently said nothing of this to anyone outside his own tight little circle, not to Muschamp or the other new staff who warmly and enthusiastically came to visit, pursued him vigorously into the last days of recruiting; he gave no word or indication of his deep negative feelings or decision against them, gave them no chance to address this problem directly or even a basic courtesy "heads-up" that they were wasting valuable time on him down the stretch, if he felt THAT strongly about it.
I'm not even going to bother trying to analyze what was and/or is going through the young man's "mind", what his true motivations might have been. He's likely not clear on any of that himself.
Two things do occur to me here. The first applies specifically to this particular "miss": it is impossible to say either what might have happened if Meyer hadn't resigned (would Jernigan have found some OTHER reason to bail? There HAD to be a LOT going on in his confused head already), or, if Jernigan had stayed (with or without Meyer, would he/will he turn out to be a flake? One way or another, we may have lost this kid sooner or later, one way or another...there may be more to Muschamp's claim that he "just wants to concentrate on the players who want to be Gators" than brave words). Anyway, future star or headcase, he ain't ours to worry about now.
The other thing this really points up is the general arbitrary and "shot-in-the-dark" nature of this whole recruiting business, especially any effort to precisely quantify it's "ranking" and the relative specific superiority of the fruits of one effort over another. Human nature, the competitive sports-mentality, and the very structure and reality of the media circus that surrounds, follows and depends upon it pretty well DEMANDS that the effort is made, though--but it doesn't change the fact that a million nuances of human behavior, emotion, history and attitude, only a tiny fraction of which can even be known by any of the so-called "experts", determine the various actual outcomes.
This applies to who goes where, and even more to how good or bad a particular career turns out, OR a particular class. It is, to all intents and purposes, a "chaotic system", whose outcomes are almost completely unpredictable until just as they are in the process of occurring.
The best a coach and his staff can do is do their homework, do the legwork, then go with their "guts" in the clutch. Stay true to your plan, don't violate your sense of honor, and the rest will take care of itself...let the chips fall where they may, basically. With a restrictive set of circumstances and a limited amount of time I think our Head Coach and his new staff held to the above about as well as possible, and got about the best results they could have, all things considered. This is a solid class, a good strong start--and recruiting-wise just a prelude to what they'll accomplish in the future, starting next year. Meanwhile, we've got plenty to feel good about and a leg up on what this Gator team can and will be in coming seasons.
I'm not even going to bother trying to analyze what was and/or is going through the young man's "mind", what his true motivations might have been. He's likely not clear on any of that himself.
Two things do occur to me here. The first applies specifically to this particular "miss": it is impossible to say either what might have happened if Meyer hadn't resigned (would Jernigan have found some OTHER reason to bail? There HAD to be a LOT going on in his confused head already), or, if Jernigan had stayed (with or without Meyer, would he/will he turn out to be a flake? One way or another, we may have lost this kid sooner or later, one way or another...there may be more to Muschamp's claim that he "just wants to concentrate on the players who want to be Gators" than brave words). Anyway, future star or headcase, he ain't ours to worry about now.
The other thing this really points up is the general arbitrary and "shot-in-the-dark" nature of this whole recruiting business, especially any effort to precisely quantify it's "ranking" and the relative specific superiority of the fruits of one effort over another. Human nature, the competitive sports-mentality, and the very structure and reality of the media circus that surrounds, follows and depends upon it pretty well DEMANDS that the effort is made, though--but it doesn't change the fact that a million nuances of human behavior, emotion, history and attitude, only a tiny fraction of which can even be known by any of the so-called "experts", determine the various actual outcomes.
This applies to who goes where, and even more to how good or bad a particular career turns out, OR a particular class. It is, to all intents and purposes, a "chaotic system", whose outcomes are almost completely unpredictable until just as they are in the process of occurring.
The best a coach and his staff can do is do their homework, do the legwork, then go with their "guts" in the clutch. Stay true to your plan, don't violate your sense of honor, and the rest will take care of itself...let the chips fall where they may, basically. With a restrictive set of circumstances and a limited amount of time I think our Head Coach and his new staff held to the above about as well as possible, and got about the best results they could have, all things considered. This is a solid class, a good strong start--and recruiting-wise just a prelude to what they'll accomplish in the future, starting next year. Meanwhile, we've got plenty to feel good about and a leg up on what this Gator team can and will be in coming seasons.
Meh. These are just high school kids. The only reason I even care about them is that there is nothing else going on with college football. Why get worked up over these kids. Remember--they are kids. Even some from the class of 2010 are not even old enough to vote, buy alcohol, or even rent a car.
One of my co-workers has a son playing basketball at Notre Dame. I get a lot of insight into how crazy and immature these kids are. Keep in mind that the reason colleges have to over-recruit is that they only have three sources of players: high school recruits, JuCo transfers, and walk-ons. That is it. No free agents, no midseason trades, no trading draft picks for players, no draft. In each class of student athletes, regardless of sport, 10% to 20% of those students are guaranteed to drop off scholarship status within two years. A couple will not even academically qualify in the year they sign an LOI. Up to 10% will lose scholarships over later academic, disciplinary, or legal trouble. A few will leave due to life happening--mom dies, they have kids, they succumb to stress or health issues, etc.
Lesson: Don't get hung up on college athletes; furthermore, don't get hung up on high school recruits.
One of my co-workers has a son playing basketball at Notre Dame. I get a lot of insight into how crazy and immature these kids are. Keep in mind that the reason colleges have to over-recruit is that they only have three sources of players: high school recruits, JuCo transfers, and walk-ons. That is it. No free agents, no midseason trades, no trading draft picks for players, no draft. In each class of student athletes, regardless of sport, 10% to 20% of those students are guaranteed to drop off scholarship status within two years. A couple will not even academically qualify in the year they sign an LOI. Up to 10% will lose scholarships over later academic, disciplinary, or legal trouble. A few will leave due to life happening--mom dies, they have kids, they succumb to stress or health issues, etc.
Lesson: Don't get hung up on college athletes; furthermore, don't get hung up on high school recruits.
It's a lot of the PARENTS that need to do a "Reality Check", right?
What's with these forged signatures on letters-of-intent? One would be news, but two? In both cases, the stories are pretty flimsy. Even the probable "real" explanations leave me scratching my head...What were these folks thinking? Are there more such cases out there? I mean, this kind and level of denial is far from isolated; perhaps someone has forced the issue, successfully settled a deep family-division in just this way at some point already. Or maybe it's something new that we'll be seeing more and more of, parents wrapped up in their children's lives to an unhealthy degree (itself not so unusual, as we know) themselves becoming obsessed and overwhelmed with the import of all the attention and the potential implications of this huge decision.
What's with these forged signatures on letters-of-intent? One would be news, but two? In both cases, the stories are pretty flimsy. Even the probable "real" explanations leave me scratching my head...What were these folks thinking? Are there more such cases out there? I mean, this kind and level of denial is far from isolated; perhaps someone has forced the issue, successfully settled a deep family-division in just this way at some point already. Or maybe it's something new that we'll be seeing more and more of, parents wrapped up in their children's lives to an unhealthy degree (itself not so unusual, as we know) themselves becoming obsessed and overwhelmed with the import of all the attention and the potential implications of this huge decision.
JvilleJohnny
Senior Member
Yessir. Its ALL in the coaching. Jimbo and Mark Richt can get all the 5 star recruits they can handle. But if they can't coach em up, they aren't gonna go anywhere with them. I don't believe in the star system. The guys can have all the talent in the world, but if they don't have heart with it, they're only going to go so far.
I agree with Coach Boom's quote: "Quality not quantity"
Guys with the right attitudes.
Yes. Now, I will admit that Jimbo Fisher has recruited some monsters on the o-line and the d-line, so the Gators are going to out-coach the heck out of the 'Noles or else we are going to get embarrassed in the trenches...just as the Gators have been blown off the line in much of 2010.
JvilleJohnny
Senior Member
Yes. We have been getting blown off the ball. I think that changes this year. Big Shariff is a MONSTER. We do need some DE's though. I think Lynden Trail is one, but I'm not sure of the others. I think Coach Boom will have his hands on the d-line as well. And Weis on the O-line a little with Verducci.
I gotta tell ya, I'm pretty stoked about this coaching staff.
Yeah--it's WHERE we still have some weaknesses to strengthen and where THEY got stronger that worries me, at least short term (as in next season!). Long term, coaching will tell, as y'all have said--and anyway, we'll get our share in the next couple of years, I have no doubt. We sure could have used one of those big and fast, long-armed "freaks" at DE, though, and will HAVE to find at LEAST one next year (hopefully two, and a couple of studs along the D-line, and--ok, ok, I'm just saying...). Until then, I don't know how Coach and his people will manage it, but I imagine with the people they DO have now they'll adapt accordingly to maximize the not-to-be-underestimated speed, strength and talent that's there.
As important as raw outstanding athletic talent is as far as giving coaches a head start, something more to work with and towards than the "smaller" and/or "less competitive" programs are able to begin with (and what the recruiting hype is all about), any good coach knows that in the end it is a TEAM game, and that goes even more when talking about the two lines, "the guys in the trenches". I know it's a cliche, but without those "natural stars", coaching, conditioning, practice, scheme and work, work, work is the way to rise above, get the job done and dominate the line of scrimmage. Even if they're up to it, I hope we have some depth, 'cause in the types of games I foresee next season it will often come down to who has something left in the tank in the 4th qtr. Ultimately, that's when having the "right" young players, going after "quality, not quantity", is more likely to pay off.
As important as raw outstanding athletic talent is as far as giving coaches a head start, something more to work with and towards than the "smaller" and/or "less competitive" programs are able to begin with (and what the recruiting hype is all about), any good coach knows that in the end it is a TEAM game, and that goes even more when talking about the two lines, "the guys in the trenches". I know it's a cliche, but without those "natural stars", coaching, conditioning, practice, scheme and work, work, work is the way to rise above, get the job done and dominate the line of scrimmage. Even if they're up to it, I hope we have some depth, 'cause in the types of games I foresee next season it will often come down to who has something left in the tank in the 4th qtr. Ultimately, that's when having the "right" young players, going after "quality, not quantity", is more likely to pay off.
Quality, not quantity. Motivated versus lazy. After that it is execution. As someone put it, "It is about the Xs and Os, not the Jeffs and the Joes."
We have plenty of Jeffs and Joes, but we lacked execution of the Xs and Os, and I blame Steve Addazio. There! I said it! I blame Urban Meyer for being so stubborn. I blame Will Hill for being lazy, John Brantley for being stupid, and Chris Rainey for being a complete idiot. The new coaching staff just needs to not repeat the old staff's mistakes by being hard on these kids on the field and in practice, mentoring them at home and in class, and sticking with the Plan. Maybe the old staff was coerced by the Bull Gators, or maybe they just lost focus. I don't know. Either way, the new staff should fix a lot of the problems, and I believe we have the right players to improve upon last year.
We have plenty of Jeffs and Joes, but we lacked execution of the Xs and Os, and I blame Steve Addazio. There! I said it! I blame Urban Meyer for being so stubborn. I blame Will Hill for being lazy, John Brantley for being stupid, and Chris Rainey for being a complete idiot. The new coaching staff just needs to not repeat the old staff's mistakes by being hard on these kids on the field and in practice, mentoring them at home and in class, and sticking with the Plan. Maybe the old staff was coerced by the Bull Gators, or maybe they just lost focus. I don't know. Either way, the new staff should fix a lot of the problems, and I believe we have the right players to improve upon last year.
Now, one thing that would be nice is if some of those guys who were the "wrong players" last year, with the new staff and overall approach turn out to be the "right players" this season. We know they have talent, part of "top-rated recruiting classes" themselves, and we could use them. I can't say whether it is in any of them to manage it, to rise above what so far has held them, and US, down--Hill is gone, Brantley seemed completely lost, and Rainey, in addition to lacking much in the way of basic reason, continued to exemplify a certain widespread selfishness on this squad, to mention just a few of the problems--but, like you, I believe in this staff AND the talented TEAM players we have here...all the more so with Coach Boom's latest assurances that all positions are "up for grabs", that those who best fit positions in terms of overall performance will be the starters. Not seniority, not favorites or promises that should never have been made in the first place.
Competition is a powerful motivator. It shouldn't be anything new to these young men--and it's only gonna get more intense, week by week, year by year, level by level. Coach wants the guys who thrive on it IN there, helping us win. 'Bout time.
Competition is a powerful motivator. It shouldn't be anything new to these young men--and it's only gonna get more intense, week by week, year by year, level by level. Coach wants the guys who thrive on it IN there, helping us win. 'Bout time.
bluemoon22
Gator Fan
That seems like that is the smartest thing for them to do. Then, they don't have to go back and reshuffle because they included a verbal for one school that signs somewhere else.
From our POV, this coming season will be interesting in terms of HOW MUCH difference a highly-rated recruiting-class makes, and WHEN that difference actually makes itself felt, if/when it does.
Consider: we've had a COUPLE of top-rated classes in a row, and have yet to really see its effect. Between redshirts and under-utilized sophomores (the folks who "under-utilized" 'em are gone, so we'll skip THAT discussion), if we ARE going to reap the benefits, this is the year.
Meanwhile, several programs we'll be facing this season (SOW and a few SEC teams) had banner recruiting years themselves, while in relative terms, according to the same "experts" we've had a bit of an "off" year.
We didn't do badly, it was to be expected with our late start in any event etc.etc., and I'm confident this staff will make it a point to out-hustle everyone and reap the rewards next year, but for now "we go with what we got"--there are some gaps on both lines in terms of depth, and it isn't clear if we have a dominant DE at all.
It's our young guys against theirs. Either some of ours step up, or Chomp & Co. come up with some schemes to maximize the talent we DO have and hide (or at least limit) our weaknesses--and hope it's enough to beat THEIR young (and even more inexperienced) guys!
Consider: we've had a COUPLE of top-rated classes in a row, and have yet to really see its effect. Between redshirts and under-utilized sophomores (the folks who "under-utilized" 'em are gone, so we'll skip THAT discussion), if we ARE going to reap the benefits, this is the year.
Meanwhile, several programs we'll be facing this season (SOW and a few SEC teams) had banner recruiting years themselves, while in relative terms, according to the same "experts" we've had a bit of an "off" year.
We didn't do badly, it was to be expected with our late start in any event etc.etc., and I'm confident this staff will make it a point to out-hustle everyone and reap the rewards next year, but for now "we go with what we got"--there are some gaps on both lines in terms of depth, and it isn't clear if we have a dominant DE at all.
It's our young guys against theirs. Either some of ours step up, or Chomp & Co. come up with some schemes to maximize the talent we DO have and hide (or at least limit) our weaknesses--and hope it's enough to beat THEIR young (and even more inexperienced) guys!
