The Death Penalty

[G8RB8R]

I haven't seen too much here about what is happening at Auburn, but there seems to be a whole lot more there than just recruiting violations.

Let me say, I think that Cam Newton is the absolute, hands down, best player in college football, & should be this year's Heisman Trophy winner. What ever happened at UF is ancient history, and should play no role in whether he wins the Heisman, or not, and same holds true for Auburn winning the National Championship.

But their program is so dirty, so foul, how can the NCAA not come down on them hard for everything that has been going on there over the years. Not only that, but some of those involved in this are going to end up doing some very hard time in the local penitentary.

Should Auburn receive the Death Penalty for this? I have also heard rumors that AU may be booted from the SEC, too, as a result of all these infractions. Naturally, the Bammers are fueling this fire, but this isn't just smoke, there is real fire here.

The Fall of Bobby Lowder, and the Fallout at Auburn


But the link below, if you are not that familiar with what is happening at AU, will really open your eyes. Download the 30 page pdf file, if possible. I have the file downloaded in my files, and can email it to anyone who should want to read it. You just will not believe how dirty the AU propgram is.

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=22778676

BTW, since this thread was first posted on Nov 17, it is now 114 pages in length, with more info being added daily.

Also, since we no longer play AU on a home & home basis, I have no feeling one way or the other about AU. But they are a disgrace to the conference if all these allegations can be proven.

 

[Escambia94]

Here are my thoughts on this. Cecil pimped out Cam to MSU, not Auburn. It appears that someone associated with MSU, not Auburn paid Cecil $180K or so for Cam's services. [E-94's opinion] I think that Cecil could not squeeze pay-for-play (PFP) cash out of Auburn, so he focused on MSU. I think Cam decided to go to Auburn even though Cecil wanted him to go to MSU--his old coach was there, and he already got the cash. I think the guilty party at MSU should be punished, but I do not think the entire program should suffer because of Cecil and some former MSU players. I highly doubt the MSU staff proper knew of or condoned this activity. The legal tie-ins mean this should be a legal case for the FBI, outside of NCAA. As for Auburn, until someone shows that a) Cam got PFP from Auburn or b) Cecil told Cam about a PFP I do not think Auburn should get punished.

Cecil is the bad guy here. Auburn should not get punished.

 

[G8RB8R]

Auburn is in deep doodoo for the actions of Bobby Lowder. Cecil Newton, by virtue of the fact that Cam is at Auburn, is totally incidental. I really do not see Auburn under any indictment for what his dad attempted to do, or might have attempted to do.

It's only because of all the alleged "pay for play" by Lowder over the past 25 years, that the Newton's got sucked in. Lowder was buying players, regardless that Cecil may have not done this at AU, he did try at MSU. And that is what leads to him being investigated by the FBI. That is out of the hands of the NCAA. The feds are only attempting to follow a money trail, and Cecil stepped into it unknowingly.

It only seems logical....Lowder is paying off players. Newton is soliciting money for services, albeit MSU. Lowder is big time AU. Newton plays at AU. Newton is the greatest player in college football this year. It's as simple as 2+2=4........Then, the logical deduction is that Cam/Cecil was paid to play as AU.

Only if proven that there is a connection between Lowder (Lowder is Auburn) & Newton will Auburn get punished. But Auburn's problems are much much deeper and worse than anything the Newton's may done. They go as far back as the Pat Dye days at AU.

Believe me, this is going to be bad, real bad when it all comes down. The Feds are going to do all the work the NCAA would have had to do, but without the muscle. The Feds are relentless. They have all the money and all the time in the world to get their man. Once the Feds get the convictions and the all the loose ends have been tied together, then expect the NCAA to drop the boom on AU.


One thing about the individual who wrote "As The Plains Burn". From what I have learned, this is not some random poster. I have been told that he is an attorney who lives in Montgomery. Whether he is the "blueTunaTiger" who's name this was posted under, or another individual, I do not know.

 

[G8RB8R]

One of the theories outlining the washing of payments to Cecil Newton involve the Detroit connection. Cam's uncle runs a not for profit church assistance program in Detroit. You have PAC to PAC laundering, why not NFP to NFP?

Where are the deposits of all of these organizations held? - Colonial BancGroup.

Only a theory, or suggestion, but you know the Feds will be checking out the possiblility of laundering pay for play money moving thru Detroit.

Fellowship of Christian Athletes or Private Ministries come to mind. Back in 2006, a NYT reporter (and AU grad) started snooping into the relationship between Chette Williams Ministries, Bobby Lowder, and Auburn University. Chette, as the team Chaplin, is compensated by, among other things, Tigers Unlimited. Who decides the level of compensation for Williams by TUF, none other than Wayne Hall, the coach Bowden fingered as Dye's money man in his famous Paul Davis Interview. Chette Williams Ministries (CWM) received $90K in donations over a 3 year period from none other than Bobby Lowder. Who keeps the books and financial records of the CWM, the Chief Financial Officer of TUF. Who sits on the Board of CWM, Wayne Hall. As per the Ala. Sec. of State, Mike McCartney is an "Incorporator" of both TUF and CWM. The clincher to all of this is the man who was Williams' head coach? Yep, Pat Dye. Oh, I almost forgot, who was listed as the property owner of Williams' residence at the time the article was written, TUF's CFO. The home was built by none other than Wayne Hall. QUESTION: With all of this influence and incest, wouldn't it be easy to possibly wash some of the supposed cash ultimately heading to players thru an organization such as CWM, given the history of Lowder's influence?

 

[Escambia94]

I may be in the minority here, but I hope Cam is innocent. I think Cecil is definitely a crook. As for the crooked connections in Detroit, I blame the crooks at NCAA. Did you know that the fair market value of someone like Cam Newton is about $100K to $500K a year? NCAA makes that much money of a kid like Cam or Timmy Tebow off jerseys, video games, magazines, etc. and the players get none of it. Who's the crook here. (Just to reiterate, if Cam took money to play then he is also a crook, but we have not seen proof of that.)

 

[Leakfan12]

This could take some time like the USC Reggie Bush situation. Cam should go to the NFL.

 

[G8RB8R]

Cam should go to the NFL.

Right, I think it's a no-brainer for him.

 

[DRU2012]

Sorry, but I just don't think Cam is all starry-eyed-innocent as his eyebrow-raised "who-me?"s proclaim. Dad was all OVER the money-tree, Cam went along and so far all we have out in public is the MSU-part--and all that "eligible/cleared to play"-ruling covered was the fact that no money changed hands up to that point. Meanwhile, Auburn is up to its neck in smelly mud courtesy of some out-of-control "Super-Boosters", and the Newtons walked right in and made mud pies.
This story will play out at its own (glacial) pace, in its own time frame (similar to that of continental drift), and with the FBI involved, this time they'll be able to follow the seedy money trail; eventually there'll be more than just NCAA sanctions--although there'll probably be those as well, HEAVY ones--and "Cam didn't know" won't change his retroactive lack of eligibility, even if that turns out to be so.
Whether he did or didn't, however (and I too hope I'm wrong about it), in the meantime NOTHING is proven and, consequently ("innocent until proven guilty" being the bedrock assumption of western jurisprudence), he HAS to be considered for the Heisman (that being the case, I don't see how it can go to anyone else--and that's from someone who thinks he's almost certainly involved in pay-for-play AND thought he was a 1st class JERK in the way he conducted himself while a Gator).
It's a real mess that's going to get messier, worse even than the Reggie Bush fiasco. My one hope is that it could force a public re-examination and discussion of just the issues Escambia'94 raises above (and I have also spoken to) regarding the whole exploitative hypocrisy of the treatment of these particular "student-athletes", who in fact are in a position like no other such persons on campus--devoting life and limb to the "cash-cow" upon whose proceeds all the other sports (and a whole lot of other things) rest.
It's time there was a fairer, more realistically open approach that allowed a stipend for every team member, plus SOME portion of the profits on things like T-shirts and so on that bear the name, number and/or likeness of a particular player to go to that young man. Otherwise we're stuck with the same old cycle of corruption and periodic scandal.

 

[G8RB8R]

I do not know what the timeline is for the infractions committed by Cam during his tenure at UF, but could there be a connection with the stolen laptop AND the essays he tried to purchase on line?

In other words, did Cam get caught cheating first (forging his name to another's work), then, needing a paper of his "own", stole the laptop in order to make the purchase for the plegarized the term paper? It's possible, but could it be probable, too? Since it is all ancient history now, we may never really know.

Just thinking out loud, understand. I haven't heard anyone else make this connection, other than myself. Just looks odd to me, and I would love to know the timeline of how all this went down.

"innocent until proven guilty" - From the WikiPedia....
The presumption of innocence, sometimes referred by the Latin Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the principle that one is considered innocent until proven guilty) is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial, recognised in many nations. The burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which has to collect and present enough compelling evidence to convince the trier of fact, who is restrained and ordered by law to consider only actual evidence and testimony that is legally admissible, and in most cases lawfully obtained, that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In case of remaining doubts, the accused is to be acquitted. This presumption is seen to stem from the Latin legal principle that ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the burden of proof rests on who asserts, not on who denies).

In other words, it is strictly a presumption, and does not really mean that person is innocent. Examples - Ted Bundy or Charlie Manson. In no way were they ever considered innocent before trial. They were only presumed innocent with the burden of proving their guilt resting upon the prosecution. If the prosecution fails to prove their case, then the accused is judged innocent at that time.

To assume the Newton's are innocent at this time is naive. If the feds find no evidence of any sort of connection between Newton & Lowder's bunch, then there is no judgement of innocence or guilt by a court of law, only from the court of public opinion.

Human nature is damning in and of itself. People who lie and cheat, will most always lie and cheat, regardless of what has happened in the past. Just look at Casey Anthony......she has lied, lied, lied...got caught lying, and then keeps on lying, anyway.

 

[Escambia94]

There is a lot of proof that Cam did cheat on term papers at UF, but Urban Meyer stood behind Cam Newton any way and gave him a chance. The details are protected under privacy laws, and if the evidence leaked out then Florida could get in trouble for failing to protect privacy data. Okay, he was most likely a cheater at UF. He even has unpaid parking tickets on campus. Then again, who doesn't. Man, the campus police are friggin' Nazis! Until proof says otherwise, I think Cam did change his ways. I want a frigging happy story here that he was troubled and Coach Meyer gave him a second chance, which he took advantage of by winning a Heisman and a championship. I suppose that if he gets Reggie Bush'd that would be okay since I really don't care for Auburn. Above all, I want a case of innocence until proven guilt to come through so we can pretend justice is not dead in America.

Speaking of Reggie Bush, it sucks that the NCAA is not punishing Reggie--the current players and coaches are the ones being punished. I dislike the NCAA mafia more than I dislike USCw, Reggie, or Auburn.

 

[DRU2012]

The NCAA has continued to THRIVE , content to rule in its Great Gray Area, by seeing that a status quo of vague confusion and widespread contradiction remains in place. I find that in order to follow its rulings and "handed down opinions" (as if they are a royal "we", expressing itself from some lofty Olympus), it is best to consider how that "official stand" continues to preserve their position of influence and power.
This byzantine labyrinth of layered lies and hidden pay-offs is a large but nonetheless typical example of the kind of endemic corruption that would normally be beyond their investigative and enforcement capabilities, and therefore either (if possible) ignored completely or, where unavoidable, cut up into more manageable, less volatile "bites" that they could more easily control.
With the entrance of the FBI, however, that was no longer the case. Not that the government police won't have their own plans, biases and agendas at work in the mix, but the scope of what will be looked at and what can be done about it has DEFINITELY widened and deepened. Again, I have no idea how far it will go or what the consequences will be, but MY hope is that a true reckoning and real reorganization of the whole system is at least out in the open and "on the table" by the end.
That probably makes ME the naive one, but there it is.

 

[Leakfan12]

Speaking of Reggie Bush, it sucks that the NCAA is not punishing Reggie--the current players and coaches are the ones being punished. I dislike the NCAA mafia more than I dislike USCw, Reggie, or Auburn.

THE NCAA SUCKS AND I STILL MAD AT THEM TAKING THE GATORS 1984 AND 1985 TITLES. Even again it could have been worse (see SMU, their story will be told on ESPN at 9 Saturday for the 30 for 30 series).

 

[G8RB8R]

THE NCAA SUCKS AND I STILL MAD AT THEM TAKING THE GATORS 1984 AND 1985 TITLES. .

Don't forget 1990!

 

[G8RB8R]

6'6 250

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX9jRLahvv4"]YouTube - CAM NEWTON SONG 6'6 250 by Larry Lank Lank (Prod. SWAT Team)[/ame]


6 Six 2 Fifty

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlAukJhX-wA"]YouTube - Cam Newton Song (6 Six 2 Fifty remix)[/ame]

 

[irnndn]

Heisman Trust Mission Statement

"The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity. Winners epitomize great ability combined with diligence, perseverance, and hard work. The Heisman Trophy Trust ensures the continuation and integrity of this award."

Heisman Trust Mission Statement

If Cam wins this trophy, their going to have to rewrite their mission statement. People with integrity do not steal or cheat.

IMO if Cam wins, the prestige of the Heisman will be will be forever diminished.

 

[Leakfan12]

Don't forget 1990!

Thinking more National Titles than SEC titles though that also hurts.

 

[G8RB8R]

Thinking more National Titles than SEC titles though that also hurts.

Don't know about 1985. We beat Auburn that year to become #1, then lost the following week to those hated UGAs. That's why I thought you were referencing SEC titles.

But I see what you mean.

 

[DRU2012]

Heisman Trust Mission Statement

"The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity. Winners epitomize great ability combined with diligence, perseverance, and hard work. The Heisman Trophy Trust ensures the continuation and integrity of this award."

Heisman Trust Mission Statement

If Cam wins this trophy, their going to have to rewrite their mission statement. People with integrity do not steal or cheat.

IMO if Cam wins, the prestige of the Heisman will be will be forever diminished.

You sure made your point! Of course, they were already in this bind with Reggie, except it came out AFTER, then he gave his BACK (they weren't forced to face this contradiction OR the dilemma of whether they demand it back).
But you're right here: even BEFORE this latest BIG infraction is decided, voters are aware of a number of past transgressions that would seem to make him ineligible, if anyone bothered to care enough to READ the very words you included from the Heisman Charter...indeed, one wonders at the Heisman Committee itself and how THEY rationalize his inclusion, based on those same conditions.
I suppose they would say that the cheating charges were "rumors" of information sealed in documents that are now private and illegal to be shared, the stolen laptop case had already been adjudicated, the charges quashed by pre-trial intervention and with subsequent satisfaction of that settlement, the charges put aside and also "sealed", so that, from a strictly legal point-of-view, none of it applies.
Amazingly convenient, no? Kind of how the whole system works, with lofty words and a million loopholes.