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Gator Bites, Week 13: Florida Gators vs Georgia Southern Eagles

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
No matter who is coaching this team, they cannot throw, they cannot pass, they cannot punt, and they cannot kick. You cannot blame the coach on this one.

I just realized that there is one thing that will get Muschamp fired--decommitments. If our current class shrinks after next week's loss, then say goodbye to Will Muschamp.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Um, way I remember it, the receivers kept NOT running patterns out past the sticks ALL GAME--I don't know if it was /is poor execution OR poor play-calling, but my distinct impression is that this offense doesn't know HOW to throw the ball anymore, has no experience in or commitment to it. About what you'd expect at this point, thanks to the offensive (in BOTH senses of the word) approach that seems by now "written in stone" over there on the sidelines.
But look: I will NOT engage in an "under-the-magnifier" play-by-play, point-by-point breakdown or argument regarding our failures--in this game or in general, except to say that both the method and the outcome are by now self-evidently and DEEPLY flawed--and there is not and will not BE any change forthcoming. Talk about "beating a dead horse"! I'm for a decent burial, you're for betting MORE money on him. That's how it looks to a lot of us.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
No matter who is coaching this team, they cannot throw, they cannot pass, they cannot punt, and they cannot kick. You cannot blame the coach on this one.

I just realized that there is one thing that will get Muschamp fired--decommitments. If our current class shrinks after next week's loss, then say goodbye to Will Muschamp.
OK--I need to separate what you think will happen from what you believe is best, I suppose, E-...Is that what it'll take for YOU to withdraw your support for Muschamp, or simply the situation "behind the scenes" as you read it? 'Cause God HELP us if "the move" won't be made 'til "the cupboard is bare". MY whole being in favor of a full-on change is predicated on the idea that we've got to do it so that DOESN'T happen--and our theoretical/potential "quick return-to-prominence" depends on the same, in my view.
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
There was a mixture of things going on with the passing game. In 25 passing plays, I noticed that at least one of the deep receivers was open on 20 of those plays, but some of our receivers were quitting on routes.. Even Wes Chandler noticed that. Remember that he was Percy Harvin-like before Percy Harvin was born, and he did it on wishbone offenses! Mr. Chandler did not give any excuses for the receivers giving up on routes, or the QB not throwing to them.
 

miltongator

Gator Fan
Interim move might be to hire a co-head coach in charge of the offense. Relieve Muschamp of those duties. If he has a problem with that.....let him walk.
 

awebbf5

VIP Member
There was a mixture of things going on with the passing game. In 25 passing plays, I noticed that at least one of the deep receivers was open on 20 of those plays, but some of our receivers were quitting on routes.. Even Wes Chandler noticed that. Remember that he was Percy Harvin-like before Percy Harvin was born, and he did it on wishbone offenses! Mr. Chandler did not give any excuses for the receivers giving up on routes, or the QB not throwing to them.
Hint the laying down
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
@Escambia94,
Frankly, I'm a bit surprised (and taken aback) at your hardening position in this, E-...Is this a "devil's advocate" type-of-deal, where the growing loud and angry cries have somewhat backed you into a more extreme stance than you really personally hold? Or do you just fear the consequences of a (from your POV) over-eager, anger-fueled snap-decision? I agree injuries have been a big part of what's happened here, but to me the resulting situation has stripped bare the flaws, the narrow stubbornness and blind lack of imagination that pervades this team's staff from-the-top-down--and regardless, we have to look ahead to what they're capable of, what this Coach and his staff is likely to DO about it in the future, BASED on what we've learned. To me, that's the damning point. It just isn't likely to get much better. If they stay, here's hoping I am TOTALLY MISTAKEN. But given empirical demonstration thus far, I don't think I am--and it bodes horribly FOR that "future"!
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Interim move might be to hire a co-head coach in charge of the offense. Relieve Muschamp of those duties. If he has a problem with that.....let him walk.
Yep--Been offering that alternative for some weeks--but by now I just don't see it happening, don't see HOW that goes down. Not with Muschamp's fiery stubbornness, not with both he AND Foley by now having put their own reps and positions in the program on the line. Again, hope I'm wrong--may be the best of a bad situation, if it could happen--but egos and power-games may have already been too far extended back-room.
 

miltongator

Gator Fan
Yep--Been offering that alternative for some weeks--but by now I just don't see it happening, don't see HOW that goes down. Not with Muschamp's fiery stubbornness, not with both he AND Foley by now having put their own reps and positions in the program on the line. Again, hope I'm wrong--may be the best of a bad situation, if it could happen--but egos and power-games may have already been too far extended back-room.
True, but that scenario might save us a bundle of bucks AND get Muschamp on down the road.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
True, but that scenario might save us a bundle of bucks AND get Muschamp on down the road.
It's certainly a thought, mg--and a good one. Now, if only "good ideas" were something that appeared to have any meaning or currency over there at the moment...
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
OK--I need to separate what you think will happen from what you believe is best, I suppose, E-...Is that what it'll take for YOU to withdraw your support for Muschamp, or simply the situation "behind the scenes" as you read it? 'Cause God HELP us if "the move" won't be made 'til "the cupboard is bare. MY whole being in favor of a full-on change is predicated on the idea that we've got to do it so that DOESN'T happen--and our theoretical/potential "quick return-to-prominence" depends on the same, in my view.

I am not supporting Muschamp. I am just asserting the logic here. Will Muschamp's recruiting classes:
  • 2013, #4 (Kelvin Taylor, Lane - redshirt, Brantley - redshirt?, McMillian, Rolin - out for season, Washington - medical redshirt, Neal, Fulwood, Dillard - redshirt, Hawkins - medical redshirt, Ivie - redshirt, Staver - redshirt, Hargreaves, Riles - redshirt?, Sherit - medical redshirt, Thompson, Jackson - redshirt?, Bailey - redshirt?, Cummings, Harris - medical redshirt, Brown, Johnson - medical redshirt, Robinson - suspended, Davis, Anzalone - injuries, Bostwick, Moore - injuries, Young, Townsend)
  • 2012, #3 (Pittman - suspended, Jones - out for season, Powell - out for season, Williams - suspensions, Thompson - injuries, Poole, Hardin, Ledbetter, Maye, Morrison - suspensions and out for the year, Humphries - injuries, Kent Taylor, Jacobs - injuries, Bullard - injuries Cox, McAlister, Morhinweg, Andrades, Fowler)
  • 2011, #12 (Driskel - out for season, Joyer, Christy, Thurman, Purifoy - injuries and suspension, Showers, C Burton, Gorman, Westbrook, Roberson - injuries)
Urban Meyer's classes:
  • 2010, #2 (Ball, Burton, Orr, Patton - injuries, Watkins, Ajagbe, Brown, Dunbar, Green - out for season, Easley - out for season, Kitchens - injuries, Murphy - injuries, Powell - injuries, Riggs, Taylor)
  • 2009, #11 (Koehne, Harrison - injuries, Halapio - injuries, Debose - out for season)
Many of the players recruited under Meyer have shifted positions in order to adapt to new coaches, or have had to play under entirely different systems--on both sides of the ball. Check out those injuries that do not register on the IR--the medical redshirts! There is not enough here to fire Muschamp, unless he cannot hold onto a good recruiting class.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Here's MY "last word" here:
Anywhere else, this kind of loss, to essentially a "D-II"-program after a lengthening string of losses that had already begun to reveal all MANNER of problems and weaknesses (and NOT just the result of injuries, but in preparation, attitude, philosophy, game plan and in-game reaction and flexibility), would mean an almost IMMEDIATE firing.
A less fatal-appearing such sequence-leading-to-inappropriate-loss got the enthusiastic and well-liked-by-AD-and-Regents Zook basically given his "notice to finish out the year, BUT..."(Zook's team finished strong once the pressure was off: Maybe this staff would try some things with nothing-to-lose, our team play loose and we BEAT a Seminole team charging towards the BCS "Plus One", ruin THEIR season..."Once more into the breech, my friends!")--However, with Foley having put HIS position on the line as well (AND the "injuries made the difference" argument--a "strawdog/red herring" that ignores and distracts from all the other things, most coaching-related in some way, as I shamelessly mix my metaphors), it is unclear what if ANYTHING will be done about it, or when it would be done. My suspicion is that there're a sh*tload of freaked calls burning up the lines in that area code right now, a real struggle ongoing as many top boosters, already disenchanted with Muschamp and his OC, to say the least BEFORE this game, discuss redoubling their efforts at and strategy for making changes, buttonhole Council-members who they have personal relationships with and/or sense may be softening in their support of Muschamp and (mainly) Foley himself, and so on, in a story whose ending may not be written or revealed UNTIL the season is over. I don't claim to know what's the best way to do it, the proper subtleties to consider in proceeding, only that MY natural inclination if we ARE going to fire someone, my "gut-level" idea about "what's RIGHT", is to just cut thru' the BS and TELL him/them, then announce it shortly thereafter--Monday at the latest. Let's get to it, turn the page if that's what we're going to do. Pull off the bandaide quick, jump in the cold water, etc.--"Tomorrow starts today" could and SHOULD be our attitude and motto in this thing.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
No matter who is coaching this team, they cannot throw, they cannot pass, they cannot punt, and they cannot kick. You cannot blame the coach on this one.

I just realized that there is one thing that will get Muschamp fired--decommitments. If our current class shrinks after next week's loss, then say goodbye to Will Muschamp.
Oh really? So it's "NO ONE'S fault"? You just bring in a bunch of talented kids, "finished products", and they just learn, adapt and make THEMSELVES good players and form a "team"...Ours got injured, the rest were never supposed to play, and that's the end of it? What then , if not everything that leads to those things and who you bring in to do 'em, PLUS the PROPER doing and timing of ALL of them, is the JOB of a "Coach"?
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
st rwal
Oh really? So it's "NO ONE'S fault"? You just bring in a bunch of talented kids, "finished products", and they just learn, adapt and make THEMSELVES good players and form a "team"...Ours got injured, the rest were never supposed to play, and that's the end of it? What then , if not everything that leads to those things and who you bring in to do 'em, PLUS the PROPER doing and timing of ALL of them, is the JOB of a "Coach"?

The coaches are allowed 4 hours per day, 5 days per week of practice with the football team. Imagine spending 4 hours coaching up 80 scholarship players, then losing 10 of them for the season and losing 25 more 1-6 games at a time throughout the season, suspending 6 for various infractions, and holding 16 freshmen back with redshirts because they are injured, undersized, or immature. They can barely field a traveling team of 50 healthy players, much less a home team of 80. By my calculations, they fielded 45 truly startable players today to Georgia Southern's 47 (the max FCS teams can carry on scholarship during transition to FBS). The positions in bold are the starters, and the names in italics were previously 2nd and 3rd team splitting repetitions in practice. The names with stars are liabilities because they are thrust in as 1st team due to injuries to playmakers. In many cases, the starred names are the ones that commit the most penalties or turnovers due to lack of experience, playing time, or, quite bluntly, talent. The 6 players I have a star next to are doing their best to step up for injured players, but they had limited coaching up to this point as 3rd stringers. The ones in italics have to split time with other players as 2nd team players.

Good luck coaching this bunch to a winning season. Again, not their fault. I have an entire thread devoted to the ones that are injured, redshirted, and suspended.
  1. QB: 17 Skyler Mornhinweg*
  2. RB: 33 Mack Brown
  3. RB: 21 Kelvin Taylor
  4. FB: 43 Hunter Joyer
  5. FB: 25 Gideon Ajagbe*
  6. WR (X): 1 Quinton Dunbar
  7. WR (Z)/KR: 83 Solomon Patton
  8. WR (Z): 5 Ahmad Fulwood
  9. WR (Z): 85 Chris Thompson*
  10. F Position: 8 Trey Burton
  11. F: 9 Latroy Pittman
  12. TE: 88 Clay Burton*
  13. TE: 87 Tevin Westbrook*
  14. LT: 70 D.J. Humphries
  15. LT/LG: 76 Max Garcia
  16. LG: 63 Trip Thurman
  17. C: 72 Jonotthan Harrison
  18. C/RG: 64 Kyle Koehne
  19. RG: 67 Jon Halapio
  20. RG: 77 Ian Silberman
  21. RT: 74 Trenton Brown
  22. DE: 94 Bryan Cox, Jr.
  23. NT: 44 Leon Orr
  24. NT: 55 Darious Cummings*
  25. DT: 4 Damien Jacobs
  26. Buck: 6 Dante Fowler, Jr.
  27. Buck: 95 Alex McCalister
  28. SLB/ Buck: 7 Ronald Powell
  29. SLB: 49 Darrin Kitchens (injured today)
  30. MLB: 51 Michael Taylor (injured today)
  31. WLB: 11 Neiron Ball*
  32. RCB/ KR: 15 Loucheiz Purifoy
  33. R/L CB/ Nickel/PR: 1 Vernon Hargreaves III
  34. LCB/PR: 5 Marcus Roberson
  35. Nickel CB: 24 Brian Poole
  36. Dime CB/S: 20 Marcus May
  37. S/ Dime CB: 31 Cody Riggs
  38. S: 14 Jaylen Watkins
  39. S: 21 Jabari Gorman
  40. K: 16 Austin Hardin
  41. K: 95 Frankie Velez*
  42. P: 19 Johnny Townsend
  43. P: 4 Kyle Christy
  44. H/LS: 43 Kyle Crofoot
  45. LS: 46 Drew Ferris
 

GatorChomp

Gator Fan
Well, this is exactly what I was afraid of...and what I was called a bad fan for and told to go root for fsu or miami for on other boards....publicly wondering if this team was going to beat us.

Today broke the back of the last of the support Muschamp had with the fanbase. I don't see how he can survive. I think Foley's hand gets forced now.
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
Well, this is exactly what I was afraid of...and what I was called a bad fan for and told to go root for fsu or miami for on other boards....publicly wondering if this team was going to beat us.

Today broke the back of the last of the support Muschamp had with the fanbase. I don't see how he can survive. I think Foley's hand gets forced now.

Maybe. Do not be upset if Muschamp returns next year, for the reasons that I have elaborated upon endlessly on this board (not because I support the decision, but because the Athletic Director, Jeremy Foley, is making a business decision, not an emotional one).
 

GatorChomp

Gator Fan
Maybe. Do not be upset if Muschamp returns next year, for the reasons that I have elaborated upon endlessly on this board (not because I support the decision, but because the Athletic Director, Jeremy Foley, is making a business decision, not an emotional one).

At this point I think it would be a terrible financial decision. Foley himself has said 60% of UAA's revenues comes from donations. This is what the stadium looked like with 5 minutes left in a tie game:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xm7bzowx0fg718q/2013-11-23 16.52.52.jpg

What is fan support going to look like next year if Muschamp is back? There won't just be empty seats. There will be unsold tickets....far worse than this year when there were an unprecedented number. Donations will be slashed, TV ratings will be awful and the torches and pitchforks crowd that would be content to pass Foley by this year in their rush to get to Muschamp will aim squarely at Foley a year from now and then move on to Muschamp after that. He needs to recognize that the Muschamp experiment is over and pull the plug now.
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
At this point I think it would be a terrible financial decision. Foley himself has said 60% of UAA's revenues comes from donations. This is what the stadium looked like with 5 minutes left in a tie game:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xm7bzowx0fg718q/2013-11-23 16.52.52.jpg

What is fan support going to look like next year if Muschamp is back? There won't just be empty seats. There will be unsold tickets....far worse than this year when there were an unprecedented number. Donations will be slashed, TV ratings will be awful and the torches and pitchforks crowd that would be content to pass Foley by this year in their rush to get to Muschamp will aim squarely at Foley a year from now and then move on to Muschamp after that. He needs to recognize that the Muschamp experiment is over and pull the plug now.

Florida is a multi-sport school. Jeremy Foley will look at the revenues from football, basketball, and the other sports before deciding whether or not to fire Muschamp. Also the donations and season ticket sales have not dropped as bad as the forums say they have. Student tickets have dropped drastically, but students are more fickle than alumni. The school realized this and structured the ticket sales packages accordingly. It is not a foolproof plan, see the 2013 Sugar Bowl. Bowl games are fueled by casual fans and alumni/donators alike.

Mr. Foley also has another problem that I harp upon endlessly on the forum: there are no up-and-coming coaches waiting to replace Muschamp. There are some offensive coordinators that could be plucked from other teams, but not head coaches, unless there is an NFL coach or retired college coach hiding out there.
 

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