Just Sayin'...

[Escambia94]

I don't care where we are ranked next year. It is Coach Boom's job to keep the athletes grounded, focused, and ready to go. This is why they pay him two million dollars a year. It is not an easy job to keep student athletes focused, especially in a football program like Florida's. This is a problem with elite programs.

Most fans blame the head coach for all the little things that go wrong with a football program, but it is actually the fault of "the system". It is true that the head coach has overall accountability for the program, but fans need to realize that the head coach's powers are limited by the NCAA. The only leverage that coaches have is that scholarship. For someone like Harvin that won All-SEC Freshman honors and a national championship as a freshman, there is little the coach can do to control the athlete after getting a big head after big awards--his ticket to the NFL is already punched. For a student-athlete such as Janoris Jenkins that won All-SEC honors as a junior, there is little that the coach can do as well--his ticket to the NFL is already punched. These are the issues that plagued Urban Meyer--he accrued so much NFL talent that earned awards and national titles as freshmen and sophomores that he lost control over their behavior. More importantly, Mickey Marotti lost control over the kids' behavior in the offseason. Athletes stopped going to the gym, got lazy in practice, skipped practice, zombied through games, and stopped talking to Marotti and Meyer. Players like Omar Hunter verified that all this happened, and as a player that came in at the end of the Meyer era, Omar saw it another way--that Meyer quit on the players. Players older than Omar that were not in the Circle of Trust will say that the players quit on Meyer, and Meyer in turn quit on them.

Will Muschamp's job is to make sure that the success does not get into the heads of these athletes. Keep them hungry. Jeff Dillman's job is to keep these kids in the gym during the offseason, and to be there for them every day that Will Muschamp is not allowed to be there for them. If Jeff Dillman keeps the athletes in the gym or in his office when they need someone to talk to, the athletes will be focused and ready in time for spring training, then summer training, then fall training and game time. If Will Muschamp can convince the athletes to stay hungry despite recent success as a team or as an individual, then they can be preseason top-five and it will not be an issue.

 

[DRU2012]

I guess I see it a bit differently--and Coach M has played a large part in that: Though I see BOTH sides of the dichotomy you draw above, E-, I guess where I saw it more the players fault at first (all those multiplying screw-ups, culminating in that woeful week-of-SEC-Championship behavior, busts and partying and most of the team just seeming to GIVE UP in the game, save Tebow, so frustrated and finally heart-broken at first not being able to carry them as before, then realizing he'd lost them, they'd all lost their coach, and HE was about to "move on", no longer a Gator and "the magic" not just "gone", but lying in pieces on that Atlanta-field. Then I tended to blame Meyer more-and-more, I admit it, won't go into all that here, but have COME to see, through the contrast with THIS Coach and HIS team, that it was a shared "guilt", the personalities chosen and the manner in which they were (and were NOT) "coached" that fed back on one another, a classic "feedback loop" with inevitable consequences...But I now have MUCH more perspective on that and CONFIDENCE in the Head Coach, staff and TEAM he is building here now--for all the contrasts I see in him, his attitude and way of conducting himself and everything around him, and the resultant POSITIVE "circle-of-reinforcement" that is fueling ITSELF here now. He's not "lecturing", them, not even just "SHOWING" them...Coach and his fine staff are INSTILLING in their CAREFULLY CHOSEN "TYPE of player" the values and overall attitudes that will sustain THEMSELVES--that's the idea, anyway, and the only way that is and can be "stable" in this culture-of-distraction that surrounds and otherwise influences all young people--especially the objects of "celebrity hero-worship" as they are, have been and WILL be now.

 

[Escambia94]

Again, I am not trying to defend Urban Meyer as a saint. I am saying that Urban Meyer had no idea what mess would befall him 4 years into a program, because he had never stayed in one place that long. He might handle it better at tOSU, because he learned a few things. He knows that around the 4-year mark he has to get over a "success cliff". He probably will have to endure a rebuild cycle where he will lose more games than he wants to in order to get back to B1G championships in the next cycle.

Will Muschamp is a young guy. He may not know these lessons yet, because he has not been HC of a program for more than two years, and he hit this job during what should have been Meyer's rebuild cycle. These players are emerging from a dark period followed by a very good year. There is still room for some of them to be prima donnas.

I follow most of the current players on Twitter. What I see right now is that Jeff Dillman gets most of them in the gym, and that they seem to enjoy being in the gym. Today, Jeff Driskel tweeted that he is happy to be back in practice. I get the impression that the players are well focused now that final exams are over. They are having fun, which they should as college amateur athletes. What will happen when NFL scouts are swarming the Gator locker room and some of the players start to hunger for the dollars, glamour, and excitement of the NFL? What will happen when the students start to worship these players and the players let it get to their heads? Will they start skipping gym time? Will they start skipping class? Will they go downtown and get a DUI? Will they get skank girlfriends that draw them into trouble? Will they get lazy in practice or in games? Will they feel abandoned if their favorite coach leaves for another position? There are so many things that can go wrong, things that did go wrong under Meyer that many of us do not care to look into. We just want to see the football game and the victory.

When I was at USCe (before transferring to UF), I tutored athletes in math. Since USCe was not an elite program, the coaches had more control over the athletes--they were actually required to go to class and make good grades! By the time I got to Florida, I saw that the athletes got away with skipping class and the University was more apt to turn a blind eye towards grades--at least more so than USCe.

 

[DRU2012]

Escambia94,
Really good points--In fact, in focusing on my observation and admiration of the positive aspects of Will Muschamp's identity and experience, the way these had shaped a unique approach to the individual players he was looking for, and how he would bring them along as individuals and as a team, I hadn't really focused on the idea of a "success cliff" that our young HC hadn't had a chance to experience yet: I had merely made the implicit assumption that he had seen the successes and failures in coaches and resulting player-behavior in his time with Mack at UT (and Saban before that, it not for as long an extended stint), and had been been building an idea of "the Muschamp Way" (and was therefore ready to make this the not-so-different "Florida Way") when he got here.
This is an important insight--and though I STILL hope (with reserved confidence) that his nature, the style and approach of the other people he has gathered around him, and most of ALL the kinds of PLAYERS he has consciously been looking for all along (who DO things this "Florida Way") all serve to help insure a different outcome, this DOES bear watching...and, lets face it, with the very forces you mention undeniably out there and ongoing, some may well succumb to all of it in exactly the way you observe, E-: Regardless of "doing things the right way", even with the pressure of the team's own "peer group", some could fall by the wayside. I THINK, though it may be tough going in the event, THIS Head Coach will tend to be straight-forward, tough and preemptive: we'll have to see how pervasive the "misbehavior after all, and how effective the "Muschamp Response", but it is my hope and expectation that even here, his "Way" may limit the size-of-the-eventual-"problem", its spread, AND the seriousness of its effect on the team at large. This will be interesting to watch (and another thing to WORRY about: Thanks, E-...). However, he DOES have a fine staff around him, supporting him, around the PLAYERS and supporting THEM, remember, that make ALL of this, the ups, downs, temptations and potential pitfalls, that much more manageable. Above all, considering the dangers of the "down time" ahead each year when only one "Coach" has or is allowed direct contact with them, we DO have our "Secret Weapon":
The Dill-man! As with so much about these last couple of years, and the way there really DID seem to be a kind of "kind fate" at work, where seeming-bad turned so often to good (I mean, ya gotta LOVE stuff like Weis=bad-hire-then-bails-at-JUST-seeming-wrong-time-leading-to-(Ta-da!)-PEASE, for just ONE eg.), we THOUGHT we were losing a KEY guy "inevitably to Meyer" in Micki Marotti BUT: As it turns out, it's and UPgrade, BIG time, to just The Perfect Guy--at least for US, it turns out...Dillman has been and will continue to make a HUGE diff in team morale, physical and emotional "SHAPE"--he gives us an all-year headstart that will continue to show in the 4th qurtr, come the next season.
You know, that idea of following the players on Twitter is another "winner"...you mentioned it last year and though it struck me as brilliant then, I sort of let it slip away until you mentioned it here...I WON'T let it "slip away" again: I plan to start , if not "monitoring it regularly" at least putting a little time in every few days, working through a list of "key guys" and/or anyone I happen to hear anything that "stands out", especially anything that might "give warning" (I'm still working this out in my head, being organized and efficient with time I normally spend other ways online)--especially in the off-season when they're out of the main-spotlight. I've tended to concentrate too much I think on my "back-channel sources"--too few to be anything more than a trickle of whispered hints most of the time, bits and pieces that I match with what's more public to add up into something that maybe no one else outside-the-inner-circle knows yet--at least that's the idea--and yours probably has more potential--at the very least more bulk info.

 

[Escambia94]

Just be careful worshipping Muschamp this early into his coaching resumè. I will not evaluate him until he surpasses the Ron Zook "probationary period" of three years. I will not worship him until he reaches Spurrier or Meyer levels of success.

 

[Leakfan12]

Two points E-94, 1. Probably not much of a surprise since the top programs especially when their winning turn the other way when it comes their players studies unless they have to (just ask Cash Money Newton). Since Spurrier in SCar now I wouldn't be surprise that's what's happening there now. 2. Muschamp IS BETTER THAN ZOOK. Did Zook go to a BCS as a Gator coach? Did he finished 11-1 (EVER)? NO AND HECK NO. Don't know who to blame for the 2009 SEC title and 2010 season. I blame that coach more so for the 2010 season than the SEC 2009 title game, coaches can only do so much in a game but during a season well that's a different story.

 

[Escambia94]

I am not saying Will Muschamp is as good or as bad as Ron Zook. All I am saying is that we should not rush to judge Muschamp one way or another until he has served a "Ron Zook probationary period" of three years.

There is a level of control that a coach can maintain over a program, and the peak level of control is somewhere between a BCS bowl season and an underperforming, but successful season. Some coaches are better at motivating players to do well in school, and on the field. Some are not. It is well known that Steve Spurrier is a hands-off kind of coach. My co-worker went to school with Spurrier. Spurrier's personality in the 1960s was to be a bit stand-offish, and his arrogance grew with his success. Spurrier relied on his assistants to maintain order in the locker room. Ron Zook was a very hands-on coach and did all he could to maintain order in the locker room, to the point where it got him in trouble. Meyer is very hands-off, except to his "Circle of Trust", which then grew to the "Circle of Prima Donnas that stepped all over the coaches and started acting like NFL players". Again, it is too early to guess where Muschamp is in that spectrum.

I would not complain too much about the 2009 season. That was a BCS bowl year with only one loss. There are 118 Division 1 teams that would have loved to trade places with the Gators that year. We would be a bit presumptuous to assume that the Gators would have beaten Bama in the SECG and then gone on to beat Texas in the BCS if and only if Carlos Dunlap did not have the DUI, and if Brandon Spikes had not saved himself for the NFL and if this and if that... Screw the what-ifs. Now, if we cannot get off the blame game, then I blame the players for the 2009 meltdown. I can also blame Dan Mullen leaving the year before and Billy Gonzales for leaving in the middle of the turmoil--the players stated that the deep connection they had with those two helped them stay focused. I read that as "because the most approachable coaches, Gonzales and Mullen, left, there was more mischief and turmoil in the locker room".

The 2010 season was a friggin' disaster. That one is squarely on the coaches. Zombie Urban Meyer pooped out a bad year of coaching. Steve the Dazzler Addazzio was not cut out to be an offensive coordinator. Scot Loeffler was not as close to the players as Dan Mullen.

 

[DRU2012]

Just be careful worshipping Muschamp this early into his coaching resumè. I will not evaluate him until he surpasses the Ron Zook "probationary period" of three years. I will not worship him until he reaches Spurrier or Meyer levels of success.

Apples and oranges on this one, in a way, E---at least as far as a Muschamp/ZOOK comparison at the very LEAST...but I believe it is true in the other cases as well. But I don't worship ANY Coach (any HUMAN, at ALL--and beyond that we are left with either a metaphysical question--or an extra terrestrial one). My assessment of Muschamp is in his character and achievements as a man...If that has come quicker than with others, it is because of the way he has taken what was broken and put it on the road to not merely "healing", but rising to new heights--After all, I knew Zook was as bad a leader as Muschamp good in much the same length of time, and using similar standards of measurement.
Interestingly enough, some recently released news of arrests and transfers among the Meyer-recruits under Muschamp his first season-and-a-half with us have just surfaced, and is apropos of just this discussion, I think. For example: Jafar Mann, 2 days before his transfer was announced by Muschamp, was arrested for "possession of marijuana" when a UPD officer came to his room on a late-night disturbance/complaint and, the door wide open "saw and smelled a big, thick cloud of marijuana smoke, and from the door saw a bag of weed sitting out on the floor just under the bed"...At the time only the latest in a litany of such incidents among what seemed to him (I am told, off-the-record) "a regular Animal House of spoiled, out-of-control idiots" among "these coddled, over-rated brats", the then still new, young and unproven Head Coach, who had little patience with this sort of thing to begin with and by then thoroughly tired of it, never mind "understanding" OR "sending messages": He took to "dealing with it quickly and simply" pretty early on, (unlike "the FC"--his darkly tongue-in-cheek reference to the "former coach"s penchant for reducing oft-repeated opponents to the first-letters of a phrase he'd coined to describe them--and who more than most tended to "understand/overlook" in direct relation to how important an athlete he judged them to be) regardless of "natural talent", or anything else. Like Janoris Jenkins before him (then the best and most experienced defender in our secondary), Mann joined C. Martin (DE--"Pot"), D. Finlay (TE--"Driving w/susp. lic.+resist. arrest"), A.C. Leonard (TE--"Simple Battery") in the 1st weeks of the season, and several more (less and less frequently, I'm happy to add) over the following months, in the dreaded "_______ and I met in my office {earlier today/yesterday afternoon} and agreed it was {time/best} for him to move on..." Result: we got tighter and tougher and more and more a TEAM: As effective a demonstration of the "addition-thru'-subtraction"-formula as I have seen in coaching--and only one of a long string of such fresh-air approaches that, in retrospect, seemed long-overdue, and played their part in all the things I have already come to really like, in a couple of cases LOVE (for example that "LOOK"--we ALL know The One--and the fiery, steadfast way he stands up-for and behind his players when he feels they are RIGHT), about our no-longer "new" Head Coach. By now ours is a WHOLE different locker room.
As for your analysis of he and his staff's last seasons here, I believe it is as functionally accurate a summation as any I've read; Beyond that "the Blame Game', while somewhat satisfying (especially after all that BAD PLAY) and even FUN, I agree is mainly meaningless and irrelevant here and now. Neither am I really all that interested in what OR how the "FC" is doing now, unless-or-until we meet his team in play--until them, while I wish he AND them "The Worst", even my hostility will continue to fad , the more so as I hear less of him. As for his methods, changes and/or supposed lessons-learned well-or-not, as he attracts and revels in the spotlight I believe it is safe to say, "We'll see."

 

[Escambia94]

Let me elaborate more on the "Ron Zook probationary period", because I do not think you guys get it. You simply cannot evaluate a coach on three to four years of work. Ron Zook was at Florida for three years. He never got to see a recruit at Florida go from freshman to senior. We do not know if what little success he has was because he inherited Spurrier's players, or if he was a good recruiter that fell short of the Spurrier level of expectation. We validate our vitriol against him by looking at what he did at Illinois. He honestly did not get a fair assessment. If you ask me, he was not a bad guy--he just was not ready to be a head coach. If he would have remained a special teams coach, defensive back coach, and recruiter under another head coach, he would have been fine. Galen Hall was similar. Hall was great as an offensive coordinator, but once you made him a head coach everything went bad--he was not meant to be a head coach.

Will Muschamp has only been a head coach for two years. We still do not know a lot about him. He looks like a saint now getting the Gators to a BCS bowl, but look at the players Muschamp used to get there who are All SEC this year:

• Mike Gillislee - recruited by Charlie Strong and Kenny Carter
• Shariff Floyd - recruited by Steve the Dazzler Addazzio
• Matt Elam - recruited by Urban Meyer, after Matt almost went to FSU
• Caleb Sturgis - recruited by Greg Mattison
• Kyle Christy - recruited by DJ Durkin
• (2nd team) Jordan Reed - recruited by Steve Addazio and Scot Loeffler
• (2nd team) Jon Bostic - recruited by Charlie Strong

It is very possible that if Urban Meyer would have stayed that these same players would have found a groove and led the team to a good year, just as Will Muschamp was able to do. It is very possible that Urban Meyer put together some very good talent, but look at those recruiters and tell me how many were with Urban Meyer in his last year. Only the punter. Yes, look again. The only All SEC player recruited under the Muschamp staff is the punter.
I am not trying to knock Will Muschamp, but I do caution everyone to manage expectations. I see a lot of hatred towards Urban Meyer and a sudden what I call hero worship of Will Muschamp, even though he has not yet earned the praise that members of this board are already heaping on Muschamp.
After Will Muschamp has established himself after 4 or more years, we will know if he is on a trajectory of greatness like Spurrier and Meyer, or if he will end up being in the Galen Hall and Ron Zook level of coaches. It is still too early to tell.

 

[DRU2012]

OK, Escambia94, I am going to just answer this in as simple and straight-forward, non-confrontational way as I can, and that CAN be it--unless you elect to belabor the matter:
I think I DO "get it"; I just see it differently. I don't believe that (a) anyone involved, watching or (especially) judging-and-if-necessary-ACTING, necessarily NEEDS any 4 OR 5 year "probationary period" to make certain of these kinds of evaluations and resulting decisions (and CERTAINLY not "opinions", as WE are doing here), or
(b) OUGHT to need or be waiting that long to do so: sorry, but that is neither realistic, nor "fair" to ANYONE, with the possible exception of the Coach, who frankly "knows the score" at a program like ours and MUST understand the fine line, the RAZOR'S EDGE that he is walking the moment he takes over...and it ISN'T "win now or ELSE" in most cases, but rather capture the imagination of your team, fans and boosters, and then live up to the hope and enthusiasm you inspire, in the manner according to which you led everyone to believe you would be doing things...See? that "edge" is formed by TWO-sides, the promise and the reality, where "the blade edge" is the STYLE implied, and whether you appear to be living up to it after all. Gotta have the first two from the start, while the third reveals as time goes on--and if you think about it, on every team, in any program--and specifically here at UF, for eg., where Zook had the first ("promise") but never the second ("reality") really and an illusion of the third ("style")...Meyer's tenure was more complicated, by this view, and thus by both appearance AND results, DESERVED the benefit-of-the-doubt in that (what turned out to be his) last year, where no matter how we might revise and/or re-evaluate his time here in retrospect, it wasn't until that "style"-edge broke down at the end that the apparent "illusory"-nature of how he'd run the first few years "collapsed backward" and to a great extent "undid" the trust he had built among us all during that time-of-success. Does it UNDO all of that success, after all?
My main point here, and the one that really cuts to the heart of everything else, is that YOU CAN'T "wait and see" or "weigh and consider" once you have the idea that "this ISN'T the one". The ONLY reason you don't decisively act RIGHT THEN is because you have the "NEXT one", the person you are CERTAIN you want in his place, already in-mind, and know you can't get him until next season, for eg., and you figure it is best to keep "this one" in place until that can be pulled off...Otherwise, as implied, the idea is to ACT AS SOON AS YOU KNOW that this plan ain't working and that another one must be arranged-for and in place ASAP. There's two parts to that decision, then--"this one must go" and "another must be found and put in place", and ideally you don't "pull the trigger" until you can "make those two ONE", or, with all of their no-doubt many complex details and loose-ends, as close to "one-sweeping-move"/series-of-moves as is possible, at least within the constraints of time.
Foley has ALWAYS "gotten that" and where things HAVEN'T always gone that "ideally well", he has certainly appeared to have LEARNED HIS LESSONS--moved fast and gotten it right THIS time as soon as he realized he'd waited too long (He felt he HAD to give the man he THOUGHT Meyer was that extra year), and he sure knew who he wanted and got THAT right THIS time ("There WAS no Plan B", according to Foley..."I called Will from my car driving away from that hastily-called and suddenly announced 2nd resignation, and asked him to come in and be our next Head Coach"...we don't KNOW , but it is my assumption, that he'd already at least TALKED to Muschamp about the idea at SOME point before this, for him to BE "The only one I wanted" in the first place)...But then THINK for a moment if he WASN'T ready to "pull the trigger" and with whom, or if he hesitates, or let's MEYER hem-and-haw some more, or otherwise delays in anyway and somehow DOESN'T get Muschamp--We could easily be floundering STILL, maybe gotten some DISASTER like WEIS as our Coach and having to DUMP him now and start over, from the lower-tier of the SEC-East--or a dozen other domino-effect series of "unfortunate actions and reactions" that we'd be wrestling with now. Tell me you don't feel like I do, that not only are we without-a-doubt headed in the right direction, but it feels that way as much because of what has been cleared away, around and among us, as for where we're going and how we're getting there. It just feels CLEANER now--a whole lot more streamlined, with details attended to as they arise.

 

[Leakfan12]

Well Galen Hall was a victim of sins of Pell and a witchhunt of the NCAA, SEC, and couple of former gator coaches who were pissed off because they got the boot from Florida and some freaking reason those organization allowed those bitter guys leveled those punishment to stand also made it count during that 1984 for some reason. Their had to been some sexual acts by the other schools to get the Gators the way the NCAA did. Also Hall got trouble himself and got canned. Also OK Zook only got three years but so did two coaches in the SEC who got the boot including Joker Phillips the new WR coach (Auburn coach got four years and fired after three years he "won" the title) after this season. Heck there was Colorado only gave their guy two seasons. Welcome to today's college football. It's a nasty business. You got us the fans, the boosters (fans/alums with deep pockets), and adminstartors that care about winning now and often and you don't your gone simple as that (OK don't know about the admins care about winning but fans and booster do). Honestly I feel bad about three of the new SEC coaches (don't care about the new Arkansas coach), it's going to be hard to win with six teams who won 10 games so far this season. Miss State won eight games (possibly nine if they beat Northwestern) it's going to be hard to recruit.

 

[Escambia94]

I understand that football is a nasty business. What fans do not understand is that football is a nasty business in ways we generally do not pay attention to. Generally speaking, fans hate Ron Zook because he did not give us 10-win seasons. I like Ron Zook because he was a passionate guy that genuinely cared for his players enough where he almost got caught up knee deep in a locker room brawl. He recruited 22 of the 24 starters from the 2006 National Championship team. True story. This is a guy that Gator fans generally hated since day 1. FireRonZook.com was created on the day he was hired! Fans at that time did not like the fact that Zook was not Spurrier, and they were blind to the fact that Saint Spurrier abandoned the Gator Nation for the NFL. Now whenever a coach leaves, Gator fans cry like little kids facing child abandonment issues. Did we forget that football is a nasty business, or do we generally invoke that lesson when it is convenient for us as fans?

I keep saying "generally speaking" and "Gator fans in general", so do not take this personally, the few readers of this particular forum. I am a member of a couple other forums where it is much worse than this one. Maybe I am venting about those Gator fans on this forum. The point is that if we as Gator fans really do believe in "all kinds of weather we'll all stick together", we really should not be aiming vitriol and hater-ade at Gator coaches that did their best. Sure, we can poke fun at Ron Zook, Steve Addazzio, and Charlie Weis from time to time, but let us not forget that they chose to take some of the hardest jobs in college football. Weis did not earn much respect in one year of sitting on ice coolers and ruining the offense, so he gets less protection from me, but Addazzio and Zook really deserve our respect with only occasional jokes...but not hatred and total disrespect. Will Muschamp gains respect points for the 11-1 record and a BCS bowl, but let us not anoint him as being holier than Urban Meyer. Not yet.

 

[DRU2012]

I NEVER "hated" Ron Zook--and I thought that "Fire Zook"-thing was asinine and low-class--He WAS an emotional, passionate Head Coach who WANTED and was happy to be a Gator...even said later that one reason "it was easier to take" the Illinois job was that their "colors are similar to" ours--and YES: He was a HELL of a recruiter and put a FINE collection of talent together, the groundwork for our 2006 Championship team.
It was just that, let's face it, he just isn't that bright, doesn't have that long-range, intense DETAIL-oriented vision of how he would "build a winner" as a Head Coach that is more-or-less required at a major program to WIN nowadays--certainly at a place like Florida post-Spurrier...Muschamp's passion, maybe, but little of the REST. No, Ron Zook may have FELT t us like a "waste of time" by the time he was fired, but he WASN'T one 'cause he DID pull all that talent in for "the next guy"--and don't think for a MOMENT Urban Meyer didn't see and recognize the HEAD START he had coming IN here...THAT is exactly the problem that Charley Strong saw in places like Auburn and Tennessee (and it's no coincidence he got his "graduate education" as a DC under Meyer-of-ALL-people: the best he'd get at either of 'em is something like the 3 years that Ron Zook got at UF, before he and the rest came in with his old Boss--just enough time to, ideally, pull in the talent that the NEXT guy would likely get to WIN with! That's modern college football after all, as you say. Some say that the PLAYERS should have the same "right-to-leave" when the Coach-who-recruited-them suddenly bails...But what if they're fired? And anyway, the players already DO have that option to SOME extent, if they're good: A coach never knows whether the more talent that kid he brought in shows, the more he brings him along and helps him grow quickly, the sooner he may be ready, able and willing to himself "bail", his junior year or even earlier, as college/pro football eligibility gets more and more like basketball in how "flexible" its rules in this area.

 

[FrozenGator]

One thing I've always hated (from afar, mind you) is when athletes develop (or overdevelop) their sense of entitlement. I also hate when coaches have that inner circle of players with whom they really connect, but do so at the expense of building into other guys. Maybe it's because I've been one of the "other guys" in work environments or something, I dunno.

I also work in Residence Life (see my shirt in the avatar?). It's true. I work with university students all day, every day, and even when I get "the call" we all hate and have to go in at 3am to see what's up now. I have a staff of Resident Assistants who are students as well. This group of people are incredible sensitive to perceptions of favourites and so forth. It takes intentional effort to create a team of students where they don't see an inner circle.

Now, all this to say, it seems to me that it's the worst thing in the world for a coach to be seen as having "his guys." I would hope he does a good enough job with the players that everyone feels like he's the coach's guy. Yes, he'll deal with the starters more than he does with others, but if a coach ever gets to the place where he's insulated or surrounded himself with a few players at the expense of the others, I think he's on his way to losing the locker room. The inner circle will graduate, and then you'll have a group of players who either resent you for not including them first, or are so jealous of the attention they'll not work with the "others," forgetting what it was like for them....

Anyway, I'm pleased with the efforts I've seen Coach take to be separate from the players, but connected. For example, when he's talking to Driskell, I see him also talking to the other QBs at the same time. When he loses control of his face at someone who makes a mistake, he doesn't care who it is; no one gets less yelled at because of who he is.

I'm not crowning him the next greatest Gators coach. I hope he is. I hope he grows old and dies a Gator (whatever else you want to say about Bowden from FSU, that dude was there forever, and seemed to be pretty loved by the players), after leading the team to some sort of 25 year dynasty. But I think he'll only get there by looking at the mistakes made by predecessors, and then NOT repeating them, especially off the field. If you want to lose a locker room, make sure you treat people unfairly in some way. No better method.

 

[DRU2012]

Well said, FG--TOTALLY agree. And I would LOVE if Coach turned out to be the guy who stayed through it all, thick-and-thin, building and rebuilding SEVERAL Gator dynasties--even longer than Spurrier, maybe (though I'm not sure that ANYONE stays for Pappie Bowden-type-time anymore, anywhere: Let's see, maybe Brown and Stoops in the Big 12 are still in the running, but even there...). The contrast between Chomp and "the last guy" are striking--with our guy looking better all-the-TIME (Meyer HAD to be at the TOP of your mental list when you described "coaches that have that inner circle"--I've never seen a Coach with more open feeling for, dependance on, and relaxed-double-standard WITH "my guys" than Urban Meyer here at UF). The best sign of all, of what we've got in THIS Coach and where we are headed as a program and as a TEAM, is that all that we see of him is the "real guy"...what he shows is who he is. You can see how in this way, with tough, unyielding self-discipline and determination expected of coaches and players, top-to-bottom, including himself, he forges a new and complete TEAM.
Actually, YOUR job sounds a LOT like what I've long figured teams at the major programs OUGHT to have a separate coach just to do: A kind of "Residence Life Coach", if you will. In my mind, that job would be 3 parts camp counselor, 2 parts father confessor, and 1 part public defender--with a pinch of jailer-at-Sing-Sing thrown in...
(All efforts at cleverness aside, it sounds to me like you have a pretty damn cool job, FG, one you are satisfied in and by--you'd HAVE to be to DO it, 'cause that's the only kind of individual who'd do it well...)

 

[Escambia94]

DRU2012: Be careful on what you ask for. No coaches--resident life coach, or otherwise--is allowed to be that camp counselor/priest/public defender under NCAA rules. It is a silly rule, but a rule nonetheless. The only coach that is allowed to do any of this during the "hands-off" season is the strength and conditioning coach.

FrozenGator: Urban Meyer meant well with his "Circle of Trust", and it did gain us a national championship. Meyer arrived at Florida and saw a bunch of prima donnas, so he took everything away from them. Everything. He then incentivized performance in practice and in games--those who did well got those things back that he took away. That worked great from 2005 to 2006. By 2006, he forgot to reset the clock and start everyone over again at ground zero, and he was back where he started--a bunch of prima donnas that could not be motivated to perform better. The "Circle of Trust" was supposed be "the players that earned the coach's trust the most and were afforded better equipment, better meals, time off, and perhaps some preferential treatment", but it wound up being a popularity contest or social clique. Urban Meyer will do well in that other school if he remembers that he needs to reset the clock every season and make everyone work hard each and every year. This is where I hear that Will Muschamp has a better plan--each and every player must work for his spot each and every week, not each season or each college career.

 

[DRU2012]

Escambia94, FrozenGator,
Most of above is "enfolded" in my response to you over at the "Johnny Football..."-thread, my last comment there...all EXCEPT:
This business about Meyer's "Circle of Trust" and its ultimate part in our team's precipitous plunge into confusion and mediocrity--most of ALL Meyer's PLACE in that fall and how this whole "Circle--" thing was an inevitably integral factor..."Meant well" could also be described as "shallow, selfish and short-sighted...", where he picked and personally developed "a bunch of prima donnas", then upon finally seeing the mess he'd made merely bailed ASAP! I'm with FG on its underlying foolishness and destructiveness in terms of the team...but by the same token I missed it--worse, went along with it, did mental contortions to NOT acknowledge it or to see it as something else along the way, all in the flush of pride and excitement at success, rationalized violations in my own values in order to justify WINS--exactly how this all works on the macro-level, and what people like Meyer and the rest both COUNT on and BLAME as the reason they "HAVE to do it", that this is how we all think "out there", what is "demanded" of them and the team they coach. I feel "dirty"for getting/being (choose one, according to hard-core self-honesty) involved in that process, and maybe that's one more reason I resent Urban Meyer so much(?)--this one on MY head and hands, not his...well, on mine as WELL as his--Oh yeah: Actually, I CAN put it at least mostly back on The Liar after all...F*ck him, the scumbag...(I feel BETTER after all)

 

[FrozenGator]

Escambia94: Yeah, he needed to reset everything. That's really the only way to run a team with such high turnover every year as a college team. Start of training camp, everyone starts at 0; whatever you had earned the season before (starting spot, pick of roommate, flexible workout times) disappears and it has to be earned back. Some things are more easily earned than others (eg: Written request for flexible workout times, followed by 2 week trial - if the guy can keep up the conditioning on his own, then he gets the privilege), but everyone earns everything.

And, what's more, things can be lost. "Forget" to hit the gym with no good explanation? - well, looks like someone's going to hold your hand and walk you to the place like a little boy, and make sure you do all your reps and then you feel foolish.

But, more than anything, every player HAS to know (not just believe, but KNOW) that they can speak with a coach at any time (+/- a day or so, right?), about anything, and he'll get the coach's undivided attention. No "inner circle" nonsense. Can't handle it.

 

[Escambia94]

FrozenGator: You nailed it. If I had to summarize what went wrong with Urban Meyer's coaching regime, I would quote your post.

Out of those problems stemmed all the other problems that plagued Meyer. Any readers here should really read both Urban Meyer's and Tim Tebow's books to get an understanding of what went on behind the scenes. It is always about the people. In this case, it was the coaches losing touch with players, players losing touch with one another, and the subsequent falling out and falling down that was only balanced by the sheer talent of the players...when they cared. If most of them problem kids--from Cam Newton to Carlos Dunlap--had talked to somebody before being stupid, things would have been very different.

 

[FrozenGator]

Escambia94: I'm reminded of a line from a poem, that I think addresses the concept of an "inner circle:" "If all men count with you, but none too much." I'd think the corollary could be true: "If you count with all men, but none too much."

I count it among my most amazing accomplishments in my career to meet with "problem students" (I do the student discipline, you see), and to work with them to make better choices, and THEN to see such progress I hire them as an RA. Whatever else might be said of me, I will hold nothing to be superior to that. (Yes, I know it's even more about the student wanting to change than me being awesome; it sucks worse than anything to move Heaven and Earth for someone, only to have them ignore the opportunity and wind up worse than before).

And I'm not being paid $3M a year. If I was being paid that much, you can guarantee I'd be making the time to meet with every player upon request, and would be swinging by the residence halls/dining rooms/gyms/etc from time to time just to check in with the guys. It was said of Alexander the Great, and of George Washington, that they never forgot the name of a man they met who served under them. Probably just urban myth, but I like the idea that a freshman practice team guy could make an appointment to talk to the Head Coach and know that for 15 minutes - even an hour - the player would be the most important thing in the Coach's world, but that no player would get more time than any other, just because of who he is.