Why not College coach and be like Spurrier? Are you accusing Tebow of being like JaMarcus Russell, E-94? I'll sure he's trying and even some critics like Jim Rome says Tebow need time. If the coaches can work him on his feet and possibly his throwing notion, he can be a good QB. Also with that line, they could have Elway in his prime and yet he be sacked for 6 or 7 times.
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The TEBOW Watch
- Thread starter MahxFahn
- Start date
CaliZona_Gator
Super Senior Member
Yup, Tebow needs a team that will work with him. And it's pretty evident that Tebow needs to speed up is motions & reading skills. The ball needs to be out quicker. And that will be accomplished if Denver keeps him in the rest of he season, then goes through an uninterrupted pre-season with him as the QB.
Every QB needs time to learn to read defenses. No QB should hold the ball for 5 seconds. In pee wee football we learn that, except we get 10 seconds. In high school it is 5 or 6 seconds, maybe 7 on a deep drop. In college it is 5. In the NFL it is 4 or 5. Jamarcus Russell rarely looked this bad. At times he did, so Tebow needs to avoid the Jamarcus curse by getting rid of the ball until he learns to read the defense, or he needs to run around and through that defensive run blitz. Everybody is run blitzing him, which means there is an open receiver he needs to hit at 3 seconds in the middle or in the flat, or he needs to attack the linebacker coming up in the blitz. If it is a safety, he definitely needs to run, but that will expose him to the defensive end that is pancaking his offensive line. These are things Timmy can do! He needs to take it upon himself to read the play book and read the field to do what Timmy can do. Get the ball out of your hands at 4 seconds, or run at 5. Do not stand there at 6 when the defense is in the backfield coming up field to swat the ball as you are winding up. If they blitz and hit your wind mill wind up at 3 or 4 seconds, that is normal. If they do it at 6, 7, 8 seconds, that is worse than Jamarcus. Jamarcus did not throw out of bounds, but he did run at the run blitz and move the ball 2 yards. Timmy is moving the ball backwards with 12 sacks...2 sacks per series!
I'm surprised at you, E-: while I feel your pain and frustration, I also think you're going WAY over to the "other side" here in reacting to a young player in the wrong system (you know it) with the wrong team (a TERRIBLE team, you know THIS too!) with the wrong game plan (read your own posts HERE over the last few weeks!) from EXACTLY the wrong coach and GM etc., etc., etc.
OK, there ARE valid points you've made, both in his preparation and his execution, but "not trying"?!! If anything, I believe he is "trying" too HARD! That in itself, trying to do everything and BE everything to everyone all the time out there is a mistake in itself, an exercise in futility, as he will learn. What's more, in terms of "auditioning for his next job" (which you know I agree he is doing--but I wonder sometimes if HE knows it, is thinking ahead in this way--it may not be in him), he would be better served in every way (and his CURRENT team and its fans would be as well) if he just threw out the "playbook" sometimes (like almost every play, once the protection breaks down and the "hot" receiver runs the wrong route or gives up entirely again) and really WAS "Tim being Tim".
In the end, though, I am afraid "Tebow being Tebow" also means he will continue trying to be "the good soldier", doing all he can to do what he's told and follow the instructions of his coaches (he's never HAD an adversarial relationship with "the powers that be" before, I don't believe) and keep trying to win over them and the players, show them all that he is worthy of their trust and support. He needs (and WE need!) "Bad Tebow" (remember?)--the one who gets mad at anything less than full effort and won't take sh*t from ANYONE. I'm afraid that "Humble Timmy" has taken hold in this situation for good, though (it sure has so far), and if he doesn't wake up, he WILL be out of "the League" before he ever got or gave himself a real chance.
(One more thing, E-, and please don't take this wrong: Are you sure you are not letting your wider, deeper "Gator Angst", the funk we're ALL in right now", affect your reaction to seeing Tebow in the process of being "set up to fail"--especially the point (as I hope I made above) that he may be SETTING HIMSELF UP to do so? You aren't alone in this, if so. I mean, in a sense, that is also what the whole TEAM appears to be doing, as this season wears on. I know you realize how different the two situations are--but it's easy to let what's been happening in G-ville affect all our thinking (I am probably the WORST offender in this regard)...if Tebow fails, he fails...we just want him to get a fair shot at showing what he can do, but football is a TEAM sport like no other, and he needs at the very least the basic tools and protection, at even mediocre level, to show ANYTHING. HE has the heart, though; a certain amount of the burden IS on him to go out there and do it his own way, that I'll agree with. The GATORS, on the other hand, have shown that they have neither heart nor on-field leadership. After the Tebow years, that is so unacceptable to be almost sickening at times. We ALL have to remember to separate the two sets of emotions here. Tebow has some control over his own destiny...we have NONE. In a year of abject frustration, that is particularly galling and painful.)
OK, there ARE valid points you've made, both in his preparation and his execution, but "not trying"?!! If anything, I believe he is "trying" too HARD! That in itself, trying to do everything and BE everything to everyone all the time out there is a mistake in itself, an exercise in futility, as he will learn. What's more, in terms of "auditioning for his next job" (which you know I agree he is doing--but I wonder sometimes if HE knows it, is thinking ahead in this way--it may not be in him), he would be better served in every way (and his CURRENT team and its fans would be as well) if he just threw out the "playbook" sometimes (like almost every play, once the protection breaks down and the "hot" receiver runs the wrong route or gives up entirely again) and really WAS "Tim being Tim".
In the end, though, I am afraid "Tebow being Tebow" also means he will continue trying to be "the good soldier", doing all he can to do what he's told and follow the instructions of his coaches (he's never HAD an adversarial relationship with "the powers that be" before, I don't believe) and keep trying to win over them and the players, show them all that he is worthy of their trust and support. He needs (and WE need!) "Bad Tebow" (remember?)--the one who gets mad at anything less than full effort and won't take sh*t from ANYONE. I'm afraid that "Humble Timmy" has taken hold in this situation for good, though (it sure has so far), and if he doesn't wake up, he WILL be out of "the League" before he ever got or gave himself a real chance.
(One more thing, E-, and please don't take this wrong: Are you sure you are not letting your wider, deeper "Gator Angst", the funk we're ALL in right now", affect your reaction to seeing Tebow in the process of being "set up to fail"--especially the point (as I hope I made above) that he may be SETTING HIMSELF UP to do so? You aren't alone in this, if so. I mean, in a sense, that is also what the whole TEAM appears to be doing, as this season wears on. I know you realize how different the two situations are--but it's easy to let what's been happening in G-ville affect all our thinking (I am probably the WORST offender in this regard)...if Tebow fails, he fails...we just want him to get a fair shot at showing what he can do, but football is a TEAM sport like no other, and he needs at the very least the basic tools and protection, at even mediocre level, to show ANYTHING. HE has the heart, though; a certain amount of the burden IS on him to go out there and do it his own way, that I'll agree with. The GATORS, on the other hand, have shown that they have neither heart nor on-field leadership. After the Tebow years, that is so unacceptable to be almost sickening at times. We ALL have to remember to separate the two sets of emotions here. Tebow has some control over his own destiny...we have NONE. In a year of abject frustration, that is particularly galling and painful.)
I thought about this long and hard, and I cannot believe that the Tebow work ethic led up to two very bad performances in a row. I can understand the bad offensive line, the bad receivers, the bad running backs, etc. I just don't understand why Tebow in isolation is not showing us improvement in the basics. I am almost convinced that if Urban Meyer coached the Denver Broncos right now using the exact Utah/Florida offense that Timmy was a master of, that little Timmy would be much worse than he was at Florida. He is getting worse! I don't get it.
And yes, I am frustrated at the Gators. Some of that frustration is bleeding into the NFL. I used to tutor athletes in math at South Carolina, and I knew when some of them were slacking. I think I can see that in these players on the Gators, and as much as it pains me to say, I think I see some laziness or stubbornness from Tebow. I cannot stand that.
I sure know what you're saying about OUR team...and I suppose that would be one explanation for some of what we see now from TT. He's only human, after all, but I would have to say that a "stubborn and lazy" Tebow-in-the-face-of-adversity would exceed even my deepest, most ingrained cynicism. I'm not saying "Impossible!", but of all the possible explanations and/or combinations thereof, THAT one leaves the smallest possible amount of residual hope over all.
Me, I expected this outcome the moment I heard that Fox (and behind him, Elway) had suddenly, grudgingly reversed field and finally named him the starter: the plan always HAD to be to "take advantage of" the obvious season-going-down-the-drain to put Tebow in, and then in every way minimize his chances of success, in order to get the fans off their backs AND then get rid of him (think of how perfect the set-up seems to them: Tebow gets blamed for HOW bad the record ends up being, but it also gets them the aptly named LUCK!). My biggest frustration with TT continues to be the apparent naivete and trust-in-authority (or maybe "stubbornness"?) reflected in his continued refusal to do anything that isn't "in the game plan", to go with the very strengths that GOT him here. You'd think he would have learned that lesson in the last 3 minutes of the Miami game--but all he seems to care about at the moment is winning over these people who don't believe in him, have NEVER believed in him, and never will. THAT may be the great weakness in his character that will stop him now: as much a leader as he is capable of being on the field, it seems Tim Tebow can neither fathom nor overcome lack-of-support from the people on whose behalf he runs the team. In the face of their outright hostility he is baffled, and appears to have become ever more passive and obedient, rather than stand in defiance and "go down swinging", if necessary. I do not believe he'll earn the respect he craves this way, any more than I believe they'll intentionally put him in a position to succeed. When it comes to either his success or his pride, he will have to SEIZE them.
Me, I expected this outcome the moment I heard that Fox (and behind him, Elway) had suddenly, grudgingly reversed field and finally named him the starter: the plan always HAD to be to "take advantage of" the obvious season-going-down-the-drain to put Tebow in, and then in every way minimize his chances of success, in order to get the fans off their backs AND then get rid of him (think of how perfect the set-up seems to them: Tebow gets blamed for HOW bad the record ends up being, but it also gets them the aptly named LUCK!). My biggest frustration with TT continues to be the apparent naivete and trust-in-authority (or maybe "stubbornness"?) reflected in his continued refusal to do anything that isn't "in the game plan", to go with the very strengths that GOT him here. You'd think he would have learned that lesson in the last 3 minutes of the Miami game--but all he seems to care about at the moment is winning over these people who don't believe in him, have NEVER believed in him, and never will. THAT may be the great weakness in his character that will stop him now: as much a leader as he is capable of being on the field, it seems Tim Tebow can neither fathom nor overcome lack-of-support from the people on whose behalf he runs the team. In the face of their outright hostility he is baffled, and appears to have become ever more passive and obedient, rather than stand in defiance and "go down swinging", if necessary. I do not believe he'll earn the respect he craves this way, any more than I believe they'll intentionally put him in a position to succeed. When it comes to either his success or his pride, he will have to SEIZE them.
This there any chance that we can get E-94 drug tested? Sorry anybody who thinks Tebow is worse than JaMarcus has to be on drugs. Though I like to see Jamarcus get a second chance in the NFL (plus I like to see Jon Gruden drill his @$$ into shape), hey teams kept signning Ryan Leaf (a white guy) until his retire. Also Chris Leak should get a chance in the NFL, am I right? OK back to Tebow. Hard to move the ball forward with that O-line plus the running game sucks with Noshow Moreno so Tebow has to do everything. I like said earlier you can have Elway, Marino, Montana among other in their prime and they can't do crap with that O-line. I dare E-94 to get behind center in that line. Also I know Tebow's accuarcy needs work but last I check Blaine Gabbert, a guy who the so-called experts said was NFL ready, threw for 10 completions out of 30 passes in his last game.
Tebow is not worse than Russell, but he is starting to look more stubborn or over confident in his old ways and it is disappointing me. I see this trait in a lot of athletes. Tebow has all the potential of Steve Young, John Elway, or any unorthodox player, but he is neither maximizing his unorthodox qualities nor adopting orthodox fundamentals. He needs to pick one, irrespective of the lack of a running game or offensive line. This has nothing to do with the players around him. This is all Timmy. Last week after stinking up the joint he sat on the sideline alone because he sucked so bad himself that there was no way to motivate others. He was terrible himself and he did not need help from his fellow players to suck that bad. He got a bye the week before because he found a "zone" after 55 minutes, but I was still pissed at him for 50 minutes. What pisses me off is knowing he can live up to his potential, and he should be doing better now irrespective of how bad the players around him are doing.
So he over threw a couple guys. Blame the receiver, the coach, or qb? In college he could hit some of those passes with the worst receiver! Why can't he even get it close? Answer: he was gun shy. A mobile qb is not supposed to get gun shy. Get to moving, Timmy. At Florida he had a long wind up, but he never paid a penalty for it. Are NFL defensive line men that much faster? Yes, but he overcame that before against better defenses in the NFL. What happened? Not only is he gun shy, but also slow to feel that the defensive rush is now in his backfield. He was stripped from behind almost, where a tailback would have lined up. With that wind up and holding onto the ball for 5 seconds behind that line, I know he can run, roll, or dive up the 1-hole. He has become run shy. What do you do with a gun shy and run shy quarterback? This happened to David Carr on the Texans. Where is that guy now? Timmy is better than that. Even Cam Newton is overcoming similar challenges. David Carr had an offensive line just as bad, and did better. He adjusted. Timmy needs to stop being stubborn and show why we all believe in him. He is regressing in these two games. I almost think he let that comeback victory make him lazy.
So he over threw a couple guys. Blame the receiver, the coach, or qb? In college he could hit some of those passes with the worst receiver! Why can't he even get it close? Answer: he was gun shy. A mobile qb is not supposed to get gun shy. Get to moving, Timmy. At Florida he had a long wind up, but he never paid a penalty for it. Are NFL defensive line men that much faster? Yes, but he overcame that before against better defenses in the NFL. What happened? Not only is he gun shy, but also slow to feel that the defensive rush is now in his backfield. He was stripped from behind almost, where a tailback would have lined up. With that wind up and holding onto the ball for 5 seconds behind that line, I know he can run, roll, or dive up the 1-hole. He has become run shy. What do you do with a gun shy and run shy quarterback? This happened to David Carr on the Texans. Where is that guy now? Timmy is better than that. Even Cam Newton is overcoming similar challenges. David Carr had an offensive line just as bad, and did better. He adjusted. Timmy needs to stop being stubborn and show why we all believe in him. He is regressing in these two games. I almost think he let that comeback victory make him lazy.
Exactly. Good kid. He had the potential for Houston, but not as much as Tebow's potential in Denver. That reminds me. I read an interview on ESPN from Tebow and he actually stated many of the blasphemous words I said earlier: "I need to get rid of the ball...I need to work within my skill set...I need to work on my fundamentals..." I was relieved to see that. Now I want him to bust his hump and do what he said. Them I will happily retract my words on his being lazy.
Interesting response. I am not saying Tebow sucks, or that he cannot get better. I am saying that he is neither living up to his potential nor showing off the traits that made him successful in high school and college. Traits...not specific tasks like throwing a ball or running a ball. I am taking about the work ethic and desire to improve. He is doing more of the same. I refuse to believe he has already peaked. Either he is lazy, or he is otherwise distracted from training. I am not taking just about the playbook now-- I am talking about things he can do irrespective of his offensive line and receiver performance.
I can't tell how serious y'all are really being here...am I missing something? Guys, we 're all frustrated at both our team and "Modern Gator Numero Uno-bar-none"s flailing failures, but in the end, where we can argue the reasons for our TEAM's problems, Tebow's fate is his OWN affair--he succeeds or he fails but, while they've stacked the deck against him both in the media and in his professional life, this too is a challenge HE must meet, face and find a way to overcome. Or not.
I've got enough pain and worry with the plight of our current Reptiles; I'll be damned if I'll let this whole melodrama /morality play surrounding TT affect MY already half-crazed unhappiness this fall. It's up to you, but I'm concerned for BOTH of your respective states-of-mind--E- because you are so angry at Tebow, and Lf because you are so angry at E-!
I'm not normally a cumbayah, can't-we-all-just-get-along sort-of-guy, preferring to mix-it-up and having no great problem with intellectual conflict (and I CERTAINLY don't give a FIG for "PC"!), but in this case I just have to say, "Lighten UP!"
I've got enough pain and worry with the plight of our current Reptiles; I'll be damned if I'll let this whole melodrama /morality play surrounding TT affect MY already half-crazed unhappiness this fall. It's up to you, but I'm concerned for BOTH of your respective states-of-mind--E- because you are so angry at Tebow, and Lf because you are so angry at E-!
I'm not normally a cumbayah, can't-we-all-just-get-along sort-of-guy, preferring to mix-it-up and having no great problem with intellectual conflict (and I CERTAINLY don't give a FIG for "PC"!), but in this case I just have to say, "Lighten UP!"
Group hug?
I will hold back my frustrations on Timmy for a bit. Save it for Facebook.
I will hold back my frustrations on Timmy for a bit. Save it for Facebook.
mjfan23
VIP Member
Tebow wins again, with both Rb's out.
Timmy got the W in the ugliest possible manner. I should not complain, so I won't. Go, Timmy!
Both RBs out? Full-game semi-prevent-"D"-plus-sudden-blitzes? No problem: I'll just run it in for one TD, then finally pull the trigger on the Long One, when I catch you on one of those blitzes, for a lazer-beam 45-yard pass and a 57 yard TD--to win the game! Not lookin' for stats--lookin' for WINS!
(If that Denver "braintrust" STILL doesn't get it, one can only hope that SOMEONE out there does, and can envision what a whole offense designed around TT's unique skills, with the right personnel around him and a tough defense to always keep it close, might be able to accomplish. THAT would be fun, if sometimes nerve-racking before he pulls it out at the end, to watch.)
Why West Coast? Timmy is better at the deep ball than he is at the short dink pass. West Coast offense makes it easy to pad the statistics with high percentage passes, but Timmy is all about high percentage runs with high risk passes. In the spread option, those high risk passes tend to connect because the safety has moved up to stop the run. By West Coast standards those are low percentage passes; by spread option standards those are high percentage.
Summary: let Timmy run, run, run until the DBs creep up and let him go over the top...even though Revis and others will be shutting down Decker.
